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Thread: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I didn't copy the whole post just to save space. I really appreciate your taking the time to share your views. It's helpful to hear it from a teacher in the system, Nathan. I probably have some misconceptions since I get my info second-hand from family/friends who are teachers -- and obviously!! When they're you're family and friends, you don't go into it quite the way we're doing it here. Ha!

    You know what strikes me as odd? The fact that you aren't kept abreast of exactly what it is your union is fighting for and against. I mean, they tell you in broad strokes...but why don't you KNOW what the evaluation system is that they're proposing? (I know it's because you aren't told...not that you yourself are uninformed.) It's also my understanding that union teachers were involved in designing the evaluation system. And that it's only being used on non-tenured teachers this year...that a committee will then be put together, including teachers, to tweak it for the future. This seems so reasonable!

    At any rate, it's tough on families and tough on kids. I hope it gets settled soon -- at a cost that taxpayers can afford.

    I'm going to sign off for the night. It's been very interesting discussing this with you. Thank you.

    Indeed that is what Lewis told the Camera's!

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Yes, there is. I just made it. There are numerous factors outside of a teacher's control that determines whether a student graduates just as there are many factors outside of a realtor's control that determine whether a house sells. Do you disagree with that?
    I disagree with the notion that a one-time business transaction can be compared to a process that takes many years and multiple "agents."

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    No offense, but you have no idea what you are talking about. I've taught in both such places, and let me tell you, teachers that put up with inner-city classrooms year after year have some of the thickest skin on the planet.
    I have plenty idea what I'm talking about but, if you have actually taught in an exceptionally wealthy neighborhood, your experiences are the exception to the rule.

    Both jobs have there drawbacks but drawbacks in poor neighborhoods largely end when the school day ends. Drawbacks in exceptionally wealth neighborhoods continue on throughout the day as politically and financially connected parents come home from work, see their kid is failing chemistry, and pull every string they can to rectify the situation. Unfortunately the very first thought they all seem to have never involves getting students a tutor but picking up the phone and getting in touch with the highest school official they can.

    It doesn't matter much anyway though. School teachers should be paid a uniform salary based on value to the community. I could understand talk of raising salaries in lower income areas if those areas were having a difficult time attracting teachers but the idea of slashing salaries of teachers working in high income areas is mind boggling to me and would accomplish nothing other than sticking it to the rich.
    Last edited by Donahue; 09-12-12 at 11:20 AM.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    So how long until Obama swoops in and saves the day for the teachers, the students, and Rahm?

    This all seems like some massively staged political stunt for Obama to seize. As Rahm loves to say, "Never let a crisis go to waste."

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    So how long until Obama swoops in and saves the day for the teachers, the students, and Rahm?

    This all seems like some massively staged political stunt for Obama to seize. As Rahm loves to say, "Never let a crisis go to waste."
    The thick is plottening:

    A union representing 1,500 janitors in the schools gave notice that beginning Friday some may join the teachers’ protests and no longer cross picket lines to go to work.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Donahue View Post
    I have plenty idea what I'm talking about but, if you have actually taught in an exceptionally wealthy neighborhood, your experiences are the exception to the rule.

    Both jobs have there drawbacks but drawbacks in poor neighborhoods largely end when the school day ends. Drawbacks in exceptionally wealth neighborhoods continue on throughout the day as politically and financially connected parents come home from work, see their kid is failing chemistry, and pull every string they can to rectify the situation. Unfortunately the very first thought they all seem to have never involves getting students a tutor but picking up the phone and getting in touch with the highest school official they can.

    It doesn't matter much anyway though. School teachers should be paid a uniform salary based on value to the community. I could understand talk of raising salaries in lower income areas if those areas were having a difficult time attracting teachers but the idea of slashing salaries of teachers working in high income areas is mind boggling to me and would accomplish nothing other than sticking it to the rich.
    That is simply false. Have you ever taught a class where literally half the class is failing basic concepts that they should have learned years ago? What about 100+ students with this same rate of failure? And how many teachers in wealthy neighborhoods have to worry about having their car keyed or their tires slashed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    I don't claim to be an expert, but I probably know more than everyone in this forum debating the topic.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I didn't copy the whole post just to save space. I really appreciate your taking the time to share your views. It's helpful to hear it from a teacher in the system, Nathan. I probably have some misconceptions since I get my info second-hand from family/friends who are teachers -- and obviously!! When they're you're family and friends, you don't go into it quite the way we're doing it here. Ha!

    You know what strikes me as odd? The fact that you aren't kept abreast of exactly what it is your union is fighting for and against. I mean, they tell you in broad strokes...but why don't you KNOW what the evaluation system is that they're proposing? (I know it's because you aren't told...not that you yourself are uninformed.) It's also my understanding that union teachers were involved in designing the evaluation system. And that it's only being used on non-tenured teachers this year...that a committee will then be put together, including teachers, to tweak it for the future. This seems so reasonable!

    At any rate, it's tough on families and tough on kids. I hope it gets settled soon -- at a cost that taxpayers can afford.

    I'm going to sign off for the night. It's been very interesting discussing this with you. Thank you.
    Right on. And I really am sympathetic to your concerns. I am becoming more and more concerned about debt on the local and national level myself. My salary is a very low priority in this strike, especially considering I am not well versed enough in the budgets of CPS and City of Chicago to tell what the city can and can't afford.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanj63 View Post
    TIF funds: The shrinking slush fund | Ben Joravsky on Politics | Chicago Reader $454 million from property taxes were diverted this year into TIF funds. I am no expert on this, admittedly, but they are basically a slush fund that the mayor has control over that is supposed to be used to promote development in poor neighborhoods but is generally, according to the author of this article "winds up going to the richest of the rich." The Chicago Reader has been running stories on TIF funds for years.
    If I'm not mistaken, they already spend boat loads on CPS schools in the first place.
    More than some other states, who outperform them.

    Adding more money, won't solve the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanj63 View Post
    Stop spending so much money on outside programs, curriculums, consultants. Decentralize the educational system. Trust teachers to know how to teach their own students and quit micromanaging us.
    Depends on the programs, curriculum and consultants.
    I'm fine with decentralizing the the education system.

    As long as the teachers are fine with decentralizing the union.

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanj63 View Post
    Stop spending millions on closing schools, turning around schools and starting charter schools when these are expensive and arguably ineffective solutions to poor student achievement.

    I would start there.
    Cities close schools for many reasons.
    Atlanta public schools closed several because enrollment was down and it was a waste they needed to save on.
    Of course teachers and parents complained and protested, but they would of done the same, had taxes been raised to cover the additional expense.

    Charter schools are experiments into improving or reproducing current results in education, for less money.

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanj63 View Post
    Or I know. Quit treating teachers like whipping posts, show them respect, stop closing down their schools, stop pushing programs down their throats, stop pushing agendas without consulting teachers who are THEE experts with the most experience in how to best educate the children in front of them, and stop acting as if every teacher in the city is lazy and doesn't do their job right. And then, if you show respect, you would be more likely to be able to negotiate a contract that was fair and cost less money.
    Teachers collectively bargain, so it's only natural that people hold them collectively responsible.
    They are also, the most closest to these children in the pub school environment, aside from parents.
    You can't have your cake and eat it too.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That doesn't make it right.



    It's already happening and if they don't reign in spending, it's gonna happen again.

    Moody

    The corruption is Chicago is meaningless.
    Someone is taking the time to control spending, before things get much worse.
    You and others are opposed to it, rather going with the status quo.
    Tenure has beena round for a long long time. So for academia; it is right. Folks like yourself have confused it with union contracts. In my view, adn since it exists in instutions like Harvard et al, it is right. If you think that tearing apart a school system is controlling spending, then you're definately on the wrong side of the tracks.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Nothing to do with teachers? Or their Unions?


    Illinois' credit rating was downgraded by Standard & Poor's on Wednesday, a move that came after Gov. Pat Quinn's inability to persuade lawmakers to cut costs in the state's debt-ridden public employee pension system.

    The agency lowered the state's credit rating from A+ to A, citing a "lack of action" on changes aimed at decreasing the pension system's unfunded liability, which could hit $93 billion by next summer if nothing is done. Standard & Poor's also gave Illinois a "negative outlook," saying the state's budget future remains uncertain.

    It's unclear what impact the new rating will have on Illinois' pocketbook, but it is likely that it will cost the state more to borrow money to finance construction projects including new schools, roads and bridges.

    Only California is ranked lower than Illinois by the S&P, with a credit rating of A-. But unlike Illinois, California has been given a "positive outlook." Illinois already has the lowest credit rating in the nation from Moody's Investors Service, which has warned that another downgrade is possible unless something is done to address the state's growing pension liabilities.

    "We have to address the public pension reform issue," Quinn said. "It will not go away. It's imperative that we address it. ... It's regrettable that our legislature did not act promptly when they had the chance, but we just have to keep pushing them."

    Quinn's comments came after a groundbreaking ceremony on a new $104 million science building at the University of Illinois at Chicago. It's the type of project that could get more expensive if the state's credit woes persist.....snip~

    Illinois' credit rating downgraded after pension reform failure - Chicago Tribune


    I believe pension reform.....does and will Affect teachers!

    BTW Hows, that Corner you are in?
    That has nothing to do with the teacher's strike or the school system.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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