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Thread: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    And firing all the teachers isn't actually an "overhaul." All it is is firing teachers and putting the new ones in the same system. Also, if the teacher's unions demands are met (particularly, if instead of an increase in pay, the city just didn't lengthen the school day), Chicago education would vastly improve.
    Yeah but Lewis stated it was over the Evaluation Process too. Which there was no research done that 30% of CPS teachers would lose their jobs.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Those evil Unions! How dare individuals collectively bargain!
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But it is appropriate to ask for more compensation if more work is demanded of you. That is as American as apple pie and the flag.

    You claim that teachers are not doing their job or are doing them poorly but you fail to provide any verifiable proof.
    You don't think a 40% graduation rate failure is doing poorly? Or that only 20% of students read at grade level? Or that only 21% of students are grade-level competent in math? What kind of verifiable proof do you need? You, of all people, Haymarket, should realize what this reading short-coming means to these kids. And the union worries about music and art??

    If the teachers' union were really looking out for the students? They would include student discipline in their demands. I could sure support them 1000% on that. Three strikes, you're out on your ass -- and let the kids who want to learn have a safe/conducive environment to do so. If they hammered that point home? I cannot imagine a scenerio that would include their not having full community support.

    Many of Chicago's public schools are little more than baby-sitting services for gang bangers and gang-banger-wanna be's.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Would be nice if they could just invalidate the contracts, fire them all, and post all 26,000 jobs.
    I just wrote checks and put them in the mail to pay property taxes (NYS) and it is all about school taxes. I'm not sympathetic to the teachers at this time. A good teacher, and they are rare, cannot be paid what they are truly worth, but they are about a 7% exception, in my opinion. I'm looking at test scores and see we are dumbing down our students Nationally. Retirements and benefits continue to rise. I'm usually supportive of Unions, but when they have gone too far, it's time to act and that time is now. I'm against the CPS unions in this matter and I think anyone who pays school taxes is sympathetic to my stance. They're going to be needing some really good public relations personnel to survive this debacle. Fire 'em all and hire some unemployed.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Those evil Unions! How dare individuals collectively bargain!
    Collective bargaining is fine in the private sector, but in the public sector it is just plain wrong.

    I sure hope those poor teachers slaving away at 75k per year, get their raises so they can stop eating dog food and foraging for food out of dumpsters.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Collective bargaining is fine in the private sector, but in the public sector it is just plain wrong.
    I agree. In the private sector, one is up against market pressure. In the public sector, one has the bottomless pit of the ability to tax to pull from. Though I think we're rapidly approaching bottom right about now.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You don't think a 40% graduation rate failure is doing poorly? Or that only 20% of students read at grade level? Or that only 21% of students are grade-level competent in math? What kind of verifiable proof do you need? You, of all people, Haymarket, should realize what this reading short-coming means to these kids. And the union worries about music and art??

    If the teachers' union were really looking out for the students? They would include student discipline in their demands. I could sure support them 1000% on that. Three strikes, you're out on your ass -- and let the kids who want to learn have a safe/conducive environment to do so. If they hammered that point home? I cannot imagine a scenerio that would include their not having full community support.

    Many of Chicago's public schools are little more than baby-sitting services for gang bangers and gang-banger-wanna be's.
    How do I do my part as a chef to produce a steak dinner when you as the owner of the restaurant only provide me with hamburger and a small stove with which to cook for an entire room of people.
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Sheesh, my wife has worked 13 yrs with nothing but Excellent Evaluations and she only makes 65k. Plus she works from like 7:15am until 430-5pm. Plus the public schools wouldnt count all her time teaching at Bishop Knoll. Which was another 10. Not to mention thats not counting her getting riffed 3 times and twice Right about when she was going to make tenure. Being at the school for 3 yrs. Or them changing when one became Tenured from like 3 yrs to 4 yrs.

    Steger School District pulled that one on her.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    The fact that this is the first time in 25 years says something. Strikes like this happen when managements try and take advantage of a given situation; like this economy, and then call unions crazy for thinking of a strike. There's nothing new here. The same thing happened during the depression.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Here's what seems the relevant facts - discounting the whatever-the-union-wants supporters and unions-are-always-wrong union haters.

    1. The school district is hundreds of millions of dollars in the hole, with even more debt than that.
    2. The average teacher's salary is around $75,000 - meaning with health and retirement benefits and perks it approaches $100,000 a year.
    3. The teachers work 27 1/2 hours a week - with 12 weeks vacation including the entirety of the Christmas - New Years holiday.
    4. No one in the private or public sector works so few of full time hours or has as much vacation.
    5. The average salary for people of similar level of education in the area is not $75/$100K a year.
    6. 1 out of 8 people in the area are unemployed or seriously under-employed - not counting those who have given up looking for a job.

    In response to the school district saying teachers will have to start working 35 hours a week, the teachers want annual pay increases of approximately $11,000 over the next 4 years. They are now on strike for that pay raise.

    The private sector would address this by giving notice of:
    1. At the end of the week they will offer all teachers' positions as available to be permanently filled at the wages and benefits being offered by the city to the teachers.
    2. For any position filled, the teacher that had the position has lost his/her job to the new hire permanent replacement.
    3. There will be no back pay during the strike for those teachers who do later return if their position has not been filled.

    Within 4 to 6 weeks, most positions would have been filled and those not would be filled by teachers flocking back to save their jobs - when in fact virtually none could find private sector jobs paying 1/3rd what they make now take-home as teachers. I suspect most would be working part-time as waitresses/waiters, fry cooks and Wal-Mart stockers $1.50 above minimum wage with no benefits whatsoever. They would figure that out quick enough as they tried to find jobs to make up the lost income during the strike.

    However, because the mayor is a "pro-labor" Democrat he doesn't have that option. Given how crappy the Chicago educational system is, I think even the people of Chicago will have little sympathy for them.

    Are any of my facts above inaccurate?
    Last edited by joko104; 09-10-12 at 01:57 PM.

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