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Thread: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    No, because then we'd still have a horrible evaluation system that screws the best teachers and students, many Chicago students will still lack science/art/music/phys. ed. class and many students wouldn't have the necessary counseling services.
    Chicago schools are running a yearly billion dollar deficit. Anything short of total overhaul isn't going to fix their issues.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    They've asked for it. We'll have to see what happens. Unfortunately, the union hasn't put up their latest demands, so the public has no idea how far apart they are. Actually, it's very difficult for me to believe that Rahm Emanuel has taken on the teachers' union right about now. I wonder where this will finally land.
    Well.....Emanuel knows the City is in the Red. They don't have enought to pay their bills now. Plus they are threatening another credit downgrade. Which will prevent them from even being able to borrow the same amount of money as before.

    Moreover he told them if they were close and not that far apart, why stop talking. So someone isn't talking. It don't look like it is CPS and the City.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    That could be due to a couple of other Illinois Suburbs where they have teachers about to go on strike.....Correct?

    Seems most of the members of the IEA dont reflect what Union Servants always have those same sentiments about. Course CPS should wake up to the fact about more and more of those . Charter Schools starting up to replace those that want the free ride. That Communities themselves, the people, the Parents all looking to begin to move in that direction. Because they are tired of the games.
    No, the IEA has stated that it and its 130,000 members put their full support behind CTU which means that that the CTU is headed in the same direction as they are. You were wrong.

    I'm not sure what the rest of your point about charter schools and communities is. If you're trying to say that communities don't support the direction CTU is trying to move in, then you're wrong because "Among public school parents, 48 percent sided with the teachers union and 18 percent sided with the mayor. Thirty percent said they sided with neither.

    Moreover other Illinois School districts are not connected to City politics and therefore aren't as......a wasteful bureacracy that the CPS is. Most other Illinois teachers have been giving of their time. Most other Illinois teachers were working all damn day and looked for events to spend time with their kids and their parents. They didnt just work 5 and half hrs and hurry that azz out of school. Worrying about what neighborhoods they are in just to rush home.

    Course most other Illinois Teachers don't start out making all that money and getting all those benefits. Not to mention how many Institutional days CPS Teachers get to take a day off for. Or at least half of it. Do you think hanging out at a luncheon under the Auspices of Working and getting paid for it. Should be considered as a Norm With Education? Can you explain why it's a common thing for CPS Teachers?

    The Board of Education also is tied to City Politics and knows exactly where the city stands economically, finacially, and that the city is in the red and broke!
    Eh, most of this is just unsubstantiated claims about how hard Chicago teachers work and so on. I've substantiated my positions which directly contradict some of yours. Unless you can provide evidence that your arguments are correct, I'm done here. I'm a fact person, not a "make unsubstantiated claims and then ask others to disprove them" kind of person. When you acquire some of the former, let me know with a link please.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    No, because then we'd still have a horrible evaluation system that screws the best teachers and students, many Chicago students will still lack science/art/music/phys. ed. class and many students wouldn't have the necessary counseling services.
    It's a little difficult to worry much about art and music for students when 40% of them don't graduate high school. CPS: Highest Graduation Rate On Record For Five-Year Grads in 2012, District Predicts

    And when only 20% of 8th Graders test at grade level for reading . . . and when only 21% of 8th Graders test at grade level for math. The CPS system is failing generations.

    That "horrible evaluation system" has been around for forty years. CPS and teachers collaborated on a new system...the teachers' union is fighting it's "trial implementation" where this year's results would only impact non-tenured teachers and be advisory to tenured ones.
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Maggie - you strike me as a basically fair person. Do you think it is proper that if one is asked to perform substantially more labor, than one is appropriately compensated for that increase in work?

    For example, if you employ me to cut your lawn once a week and trim the landscape every three weeks and I agree to do this for $150.00 a month and then you state that you also want me to clean out your gutters once a month in addition to my normal tasks, is it not appropriate to ask for more compensation for more work?
    You can ask, but if I say no, I cannot pay more, I can barely afford you as it is, and further, if you don't start cleaning the gutters I'm going to have to find someone else who will for $150 a month. Then you are faced with a choice, let the competition have my business, or clean my gutters.

    However, the situations aren't really analogous. And why goto analogy? It's not necessary, the situation is clear. The Mayor sees a 700 million dollar shortfall in the budget coming directly from the schools and horrid test scores. The districts and the teachers are driving the city into more debt and NOT producing. So, he has asked the teachers to work longer each day, and have their work inspected but has offered a limited raise in compensation. The teachers in return have not provided explanation as to why they're not doing their jobs adequately now, but definitely know they want more money for the job they're already doing poorly.

    My grandmother used to say, there's only so much juice you can ring out of the turnip. If the teachers no longer feel they can do their jobs for the amount the city can pay, then it's quite simple that they need to go.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Chicago schools are running a yearly billion dollar deficit. Anything short of total overhaul isn't going to fix their issues.
    And firing all the teachers isn't actually an "overhaul." All it is is firing teachers and putting the new ones in the same system. Also, if the teacher's unions demands are met (particularly, if instead of an increase in pay, the city just didn't lengthen the school day), Chicago education would vastly improve.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Here's a bit of info:


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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    You can ask, but if I say no, I cannot pay more, I can barely afford you as it is, and further, if you don't start cleaning the gutters I'm going to have to find someone else who will for $150 a month. Then you are faced with a choice, let the competition have my business, or clean my gutters.

    However, the situations aren't really analogous. And why goto analogy? It's not necessary, the situation is clear. The Mayor sees a 700 million dollar shortfall in the budget coming directly from the schools and horrid test scores. The districts and the teachers are driving the city into more debt and NOT producing. So, he has asked the teachers to work longer each day, and have their work inspected but has offered a limited raise in compensation. The teachers in return have not provided explanation as to why they're not doing their jobs adequately now, but definitely know they want more money for the job they're already doing poorly.

    My grandmother used to say, there's only so much juice you can ring out of the turnip. If the teachers no longer feel they can do their jobs for the amount the city can pay, then it's quite simple that they need to go.
    But it is appropriate to ask for more compensation if more work is demanded of you. That is as American as apple pie and the flag.

    You claim that teachers are not doing their job or are doing them poorly but you fail to provide any verifiable proof.
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I do not know about giving away the store since I do not have access to their entire contract history.

    If Mayor Emmanuel wants teachers to work a longer day and perform more labor, then it is right and just for the union to ask for an appropriate increase in compensation taking that increased labor into consideration.

    No, companies going broke do cut wages and do extend hours of work. They also lay people off and require remain employees to do more.
    Should the school district instead lay off teachers to make up the shortfall in the budget?

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    No, the IEA has stated that it and its 130,000 members put their full support behind CTU which means that that the CTU is headed in the same direction as they are. You were wrong.

    I'm not sure what the rest of your point about charter schools and communities is. If you're trying to say that communities don't support the direction CTU is trying to move in, then you're wrong because "Among public school parents, 48 percent sided with the teachers union and 18 percent sided with the mayor. Thirty percent said they sided with neither.


    Eh, most of this is just unsubstantiated claims about how hard Chicago teachers work and so on. I've substantiated my positions which directly contradict some of yours. Unless you can provide evidence that your arguments are correct, I'm done here. I'm a fact person, not a "make unsubstantiated claims and then ask others to disprove them" kind of person. When you acquire some of the former, let me know with a link please.
    Well.....my wife works with Prairie Hills Schools District. Thats County Club Hills, Hazel Crest Area. With a middle school in Markham. Next to Harvey. So as far as all the teachers supporting you. Yeah thru the Union. Not personally and not even close on call. For a host of reasons!

    So hardly just some sideline comments, as I have heard it from plenty of them. Especially with the younger teachers being hired in. She has had all of her friends here at the house several times. Course after the riffs with many different people.

    Funny thing is she is the Music Teacher. Who does a whole helluva lot more to hold on to her job. Even with afterschool programs, as she is Rainbow Facilitator and not to mention she has to put on all the Schools Plays. Which she gives as much as of her time as she can for the kids. Including Bus duty, Lunchroom duty, and now she has had to go with Special Ed classes for Tutoring kids afterschool with Specia Needs!

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