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Thread: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Yeah! Think of that! In CA the median income is just over $60k, and teachers, who in CA almost always have to have freaking master's degrees, barely even make above that! Ridiculous! How can we value educating children less than we value things like managing a 7-11?
    But the issue here isn't California; it's Chicago. And don't kid a kidder; this strike doesn't have one damned thing to do with the kids or with education as a theory or in practice. It's about the money.

    And I still hope that Mayor Emanuel will do what Reagan did to the air traffic controllers. I was dating one at the time of that strike, and, boy, was he surprised. Never dreamed that the President would call their bluff and can them all.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    But the issue here isn't California; it's Chicago. And don't kid a kidder; this strike doesn't have one damned thing to do with the kids or with education as a theory or in practice. It's about the money.

    And I still hope that Mayor Emanuel will do what Reagan did to the air traffic controllers. I was dating one at the time of that strike, and, boy, was he surprised. Never dreamed that the President would call their bluff and can them all.
    Yeah, I think it is about the money. And good for them. Again, teachers are a radically undervalued and underpaid profession. It is an intellectually and emotionally demanding jobs. It is one of the most important jobs in our society. It requires far more education than the typical job to get. And yet we pay for it like we pay for managing a Starbucks. It is a travesty and I am glad that these folks are willing to take the risks and accept the costs of fighting to correct that.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Yeah, I think it is about the money. And good for them. Again, teachers are a radically undervalued and underpaid profession. It is an intellectually and emotionally demanding jobs. It is one of the most important jobs in our society. It requires far more education than the typical job to get. And yet we pay for it like we pay for managing a Starbucks. It is a travesty and I am glad that these folks are willing to take the risks and accept the costs of fighting to correct that.

    Well according to Lewis and Emanuel.....seems the sticking Point are those Evaluations. Despite being given more money than previously offered and regardless of the 700 millon of being in the hole.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Continue to attack teachers and expect them not to take it as a threat to their very way of life. Yes, keep that up and see how well that works out for you. As in, do not be surprised at all when teachers feel that being assaulted and they resort to their last line of defense--unions.

    But who am I kidding. The lynch mob wants who the lynch mob wants. And there will be no quieting them until the power of every public school teacher in America is shredded and destroyed. Cause, you know, that's pretty much how lynch mobs tend to operate.
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Here's the modern deal, and like it or not: Measurement and assessment are the current kings. Student evals count, and the accrediting agencies pay attention. Ask yourself why student evals are such a concern. And use Google to learn what the measurements are and whether they are fair.

    Have you done this? If you haven't, then your opinion is uninformed. Are you aware of the criteria, formalized, by which teachers are assessed? If you are, to which measurements do you object?

    And as another issue, do "caring professions"--teachers, nurses, EMS's, and others--have a special obligation that, say, accountants and welders, don't have? What happens when "essential services" aren't provided? Do muncipal codes/job descriptions do enough to spell out the special obligations that some professions do have? Is it okay for all of a city's firefighters or teachers or cops to walk off the job the way accountants and welders do?

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well according to Lewis and Emanuel.....seems the sticking Point are those Evaluations. Despite being given more money than previously offered and regardless of the 700 millon of being in the hole.
    See, this is part of the problem IMO. When a city or state government gets in debt, some people just assume that that means that the people who work for that city or state should shoulder that burden, but really there isn't any more reason it ought to come out of their paycheck than out of your paycheck. Think how that would be to have your pay docked any time your state or local government got in to financial trouble... They aren't political footballs. They're people who went into a noble profession because we asked them to, and once they make that commitment to us, it is pretty difficult to transition in to any other field. They pretty much threw themselves on our mercy and IMO we return that trust with political bs... Some politician wants to score point with this group or that group so they try to cut the teacher's salaries and whatnot... The strikes are really the only option they have to push back and they don't use it until they're really backed in to a corner. IMO we should stand with them, not against them, when they find themselves in that kind of situation.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Is it really so difficult for teachers to "transition" into other fields?

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Is it really so difficult for teachers to "transition" into other fields?
    Yeah, it is. You spend all kinds of time and money getting a bs and usually a master's degree in education that is pretty much useless in other fields, you have a very specific kind of experience that isn't really useful in very many other fields. Somebody with a master's degree and 25 years of experience might find that their best option to transfer into another field would be to work in a Starbucks or whatever.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    See, this is part of the problem IMO. When a city or state government gets in debt, some people just assume that that means that the people who work for that city or state should shoulder that burden, but really there isn't any more reason it ought to come out of their paycheck than out of your paycheck. Think how that would be to have your pay docked any time your state or local government got in to financial trouble... They aren't political footballs. They're people who went into a noble profession because we asked them to, and once they make that commitment to us, it is pretty difficult to transition in to any other field. They pretty much threw themselves on our mercy and IMO we return that trust with political bs... Some politician wants to score point with this group or that group so they try to cut the teacher's salaries and whatnot... The strikes are really the only option they have to push back and they don't use it until they're really backed in to a corner. IMO we should stand with them, not against them, when they find themselves in that kind of situation.
    Threw themselves on our mercy. There are lines around the block twice to be a teacher in the Chicago area. There is no shortage of teachers willing to take on the burdensome low-paying jobs that are teachers today. I wonder why that is? Could it be they're not low-paying? Nope. Can't be that. Could it be that it's not burdensome? Nope. Can't we that. Could it be that moms find it a wonderful way to work and raise a family? Nope. Can't be that.

    So. Why then?

    Me? My "pay" was docked when Governor Quinn raised my state income tax by 67%. 'Course teacher pensions don't count. They're state-tax free. So it doesn't come of their pockets. My "pay" was docked last year when my real estate tax bill went up by 15%, 70% of which goes towards schools.

    My next-door neighbor, on the other hand, had his pay docked when he was laid off eight months ago. The guy across the street had his pay docked when he was forced to take a 5% pay cut or get a new job.

    There's plenty of people sacrificing each and every day. That the Chicago Teachers' Union finds 16% over four years unacceptable is ludicrous. That they absolutely refuse to implement (in a trial program) evaluations that they themselves had a part in creating is ludicrous. That they absolutely reject merit pay is ludicrous.

    But. It's all for the children.
    Last edited by MaggieD; 09-11-12 at 12:49 AM.
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    See, this is part of the problem IMO. When a city or state government gets in debt, some people just assume that that means that the people who work for that city or state should shoulder that burden, but really there isn't any more reason it ought to come out of their paycheck than out of your paycheck. Think how that would be to have your pay docked any time your state or local government got in to financial trouble... They aren't political footballs. They're people who went into a noble profession because we asked them to, and once they make that commitment to us, it is pretty difficult to transition in to any other field. They pretty much threw themselves on our mercy and IMO we return that trust with political bs... Some politician wants to score point with this group or that group so they try to cut the teacher's salaries and whatnot... The strikes are really the only option they have to push back and they don't use it until they're really backed in to a corner. IMO we should stand with them, not against them, when they find themselves in that kind of situation.
    Hmmmm.....I believe several others already brought up those property taxes that pay for Education and Schools. For their own Communities, suburbs and or districts.

    Maybe if they would have used the lottery for what they said they were going to use it for. Instead of Raiding it and lobbying it and tieing it together with other states so as to hide the exacts amounts of money being hidden cannot be detected. They wouldnt be in such a debt. Whatcha think?

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