Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

OpportunityCost · Sep 17, 2012

MMC said:
Emanuel the Socialist is playing with them.....I don't know if it is HardBall (especially if the base political hackery is by Chris Matthews. But if the Demos cannot see that both Emanuel and the Govenor......Quinn. Who also mentioned teachers unions, plus pension reform. He was upset that his own Party kicked the can down the road after the election.
That the split in this New Democratic Party of Being World Citizen is going to divide them even more.

IMO bout time to as they have dived everybody else up so neat and square like. That all they have left is to divide themselves.....and yes we are starting to see them split. Just like with the Republican. Which again to me is a good thing. Splitting both. Everybody can biznitch about Chicago Politics.....but one thing is for certain. That Machine will show you those differences all along their lines. As well as with The DNC and all those SUperdelgates that get to vote Twice for things in their own party.

Im from downstate Illinois and live there currently. Im aware of how much Chicago contributes to ****ing up politics in my homestate. Quinn carried 3 counties, Giannoulias carried only Cook and lost to Kirk. Cook county carries dems to state leadership positions but...not for much longer. The suburbs are getting ready for a voters backlash soonish.

MMC · Sep 17, 2012

OpportunityCost said:
Im from downstate Illinois and live there currently. Im aware of how much Chicago contributes to ****ing up politics in my homestate. Quinn carried 3 counties, Giannoulias carried only Cook and lost to Kirk. Cook county carries dems to state leadership positions but...not for much longer. The suburbs are getting ready for a voters backlash soonish.

:agree I think so to.....now is the time.....if any to make a move and change things Here in Chicago. Subrubs are changing over. Problem is all those Alderman and others in the City. Taking Chicago would severaly hamper the Demos. But it needs to be done. As the Economic record for Chicago is all the prooof people need. Been that way for the last 75 years.

lpast · Sep 17, 2012

OpportunityCost said:
If you want to regurgitate occupy propoganda, go for it. Just dont expect to be taken seriously.

Along the same line if you use terms like rethuglicans, teatards and the like, you are just revealing you are not about anything but agitation, and certainly not debate.

I dont demand the world revolve around what I think. Follow your own advice.

This teachers strike is about naked greed and escape from accountability. Public opinion is not with them on this one.

I dont take seriously any far right politician or cheerleader who tells me a few americans making a decent wage and some benefits are the cause of all the debt....I dont take seriously anyone that tells me teachers are overpaid...when you dont have a clue about what they reall go through...and lastly I dont take anyone seriously who believes that people are just going to lay down and take whatever a republican politician wants to hit them with....You like other far righters have gotten this thought in your head that whatever you want and believe has to be....think again my man...theres alot of "ME";s that dont bow to anyone

4Horsemen · Sep 17, 2012

jet57 said:
I have provided three different sources (that I can remember here) that validate my assertion with respect to Chicago teacher's salaries. You should know that no floor walker or cashier at walmart is offered $53 K a year or anywhere close to that. What we're talking about here is averages. The anti-union people on this site, as well as the school board spokespeople have asserted that Chicago teachers average $75 K a year. According to the teachers themselves, the independent sources that I have offered as proofs as well as my own theirty years of experience in labor negotiations, tells a different story.

What this entire thing is predicated on Scott Walker's firing on fort Sumpter with respect to a concerted and intentional national business plan to derail public sector unions and change the pension and benefits systems that accompany them. That is to say, there is a concerted effort in this country to put an end to pensions systems as they havebeen understood by the middle class and move that money into the capital markets.

That's what's going on.

For those who are habitually anti-union; like youself et al here in the forum, anything to make those unions behave is what you fan: what's happening, and what unions have done for this country; and by default for you as an individual mean nothing to you.

Only when there is a strike do the issues matter to you. Now you all shout about the welfare of the children. When before, as the schools were closing, and parents were losing their jobs and society was slipping into the netherworld, none of you cared. Now it's a big deal?? Now that those same parents (many of whom happen to be teachers) are finally taking the bull by the horns (in the American fashion), you say "they can't do that", "they should have their pay and benefits cut and be brought down to the rest of the unfortunates". Those of you; whom by choice! have no say so whatsoever in thier own work places, and complain about some big ubicquitous hand called big Government that runs everything, and whom, by choice, wilfully live under the thumb of their apparently acknowledged maters, have some nerve chasting groups of American citizens acting through their own constitutional rights that stand up to said statism; that disallows thought and action.

Now, there's an analysis; that has been backed by reputable sources that absolutely refutes (your) perspective: (your) being rhetorical. All your side has offered is an opinion that is really based on nothng more than a prejudice as I've described it. I cannot take seriously the opinions of those, who quite frankly, offer up nothing credible, accompanied by any amount of knowledge, that emphatically states that what these teachers / labor is doing that is truly wrong, unAmerican, or harmful in anyway to our society. What (you) do, is shout about the economy. Anti-union people anad company negotiators always use the economy as a driving forcew: "we must remain competitive", is the mantra. Ya'know what? It is about the economy!! Demand side ecnomics have been whittled down take what we are prescribed, by a ubiquitous hand that always seems to know better than we do.

Well, they don't know better. And for "revolutionary (Tea Party etc) conservative Americans" to sit still and cow tow to that ubiquitous hand; because they have no wherewhithall to do anything about it, and as such are forced to act the part of the good Tory is outrageous. We're doing something about it!! So I suggest that (you) consider your own welfare in this and counting your blessings.

You think Barack Obama cares about Unions?....Bwuahahahaha..GM was just a moment in time to grandstand.

Dickieboy · Sep 17, 2012

lpast said:
Oh they will....this is the beginning...the far right went to far

Since leaving Washington Rahm Emanuel moved to the 'far right'? REALLY?

Binky · Sep 17, 2012

Guess it's now the teachers union that is going to catch all the flack like the UAW did.

jet57 · Sep 17, 2012

Dickieboy said:
Let me give your debate technique a shot...no it's not...

I'm sure my argument is just as effective...right? :lamo

right

I'm pretty much LMAO at you ya'know. Consider this: when you look at the pay schedule, you'll note that the PhDs make the most money. In order to make the most money, they have to be with the district for 20 years or more. Same thing with Masters or double Masters. So, in order for $75,000 to be that average, all of those teachers have to have advanced degrees or PhDs, and you and I both know that is not the case. Moreover, that money includes benefit payouts as well.

It's how the right drinks the koolaid in these matters that is so entertaining; and downright sad. Sad in that, it's a sad commentary on our society that when people in a given profession take steps to improve the profession, the environment of the profession, and teh effect of the profession on its target and society arouind it, the right-wing just goes out of (your) way argue that they can't do that!!

it's just ridiculous

OpportunityCost · Sep 17, 2012

lpast said:
I dont take seriously any far right politician or cheerleader who tells me a few americans making a decent wage and some benefits are the cause of all the debt....I dont take seriously anyone that tells me teachers are overpaid...when you dont have a clue about what they reall go through...and lastly I dont take anyone seriously who believes that people are just going to lay down and take whatever a republican politician wants to hit them with....You like other far righters have gotten this thought in your head that whatever you want and believe has to be....think again my man...theres alot of "ME";s that dont bow to anyone

Bold: you enjoy living in your fantasy world, unpaid liabilities are the biggest debt in a lot of cities and municipalities.

One of my best friends is a teacher. Its not as bad as you portray but he doesnt work in Chicago which is rapidly turning into a cesspool.

I do think. Its doesnt have anything to do with bowing down, it has to do with what we can pay for. Turn that around and take a sharp look in the mirror, you have a belligerent, bellicouse, caustic, might makes right view of the world when it comes to what you believe in, maybe youre just projecting.

Camlon · Sep 17, 2012

jet57 said:
right

I'm pretty much LMAO at you ya'know. Consider this: when you look at the pay schedule, you'll note that the PhDs make the most money. In order to make the most money, they have to be with the district for 20 years or more. Same thing with Masters or double Masters. So, in order for $75,000 to be that average, all of those teachers have to have advanced degrees or PhDs, and you and I both know that is not the case. Moreover, that money includes benefit payouts as well.

It's how the right drinks the koolaid in these matters that is so entertaining; and downright sad. Sad in that, it's a sad commentary on our society that when people in a given profession take steps to improve the profession, the environment of the profession, and teh effect of the profession on its target and society arouind it, the right-wing just goes out of (your) way argue that they can't do that!!

it's just ridiculous

Looking at the payscheduele, you only need to wait about 10 years with a bachelor to receive 76K USD. With a master and 45 credits then it will only take 7 years. If you exclude pension, then the average is 71K USD so the numbers still make sense.

BTW, when are you going to admit you were wrong that the average salary was 47K/54K? Or are you just going to run away like usual.

jet57 · Sep 17, 2012

Camlon said:
Looking at the payscheduele, you only need to wait about 10 years with a bachelor to receive 76K USD. With a master and 45 credits then it will only take 7 years. If you exclude pension, then the average is 71K USD so the numbers still make sense.

BTW, when are you going to admit you were wrong that the average salary was 47K/54K? Or are you just going to run away like usual.

I'm not wrong at all. And no, I don;t run away.

Camlon · Sep 17, 2012

jet57 said:
I'm not wrong at all. And no, I don;t run away.

On the last page I used your own source against you, then you tried desperately to use the teachers contract, and I used that against you as well. Then you chose to run away and not respond.

You were wrong. Just admit it, publc school teachers do not earn 54K / 47K. They earn 76K.

jet57 · Sep 17, 2012

Camlon said:
On the last page I used your own source against you, then you tried desperately to use the teachers contract, and I used that against you as well. Then you chose to run away and not respond.

You were wrong. Just admit it, publc school teachers do not earn 54K / 47K. They earn 76K.

I didn't use anything desperately; so knock it off. I found another source that validates my argument. Moreover, now its $76 large?

You make it up as you go along.

jet57 · Sep 17, 2012

Binky said:
Guess it's now the teachers union that is going to catch all the flack like the UAW did.

That's exactly what's happening. It's a concerted effort by America's business plan being carried out by the greedy and supported by the ignorant.

OpportunityCost · Sep 17, 2012

jet57 said:
That's exactly what's happening. It's a concerted effort by America's business plan being carried out by the greedy and supported by the ignorant.

Dont pay attention to the numbers, stick it to the man. Hes GREEEEEDY and EEEEEVIIIIILLL.

Listen to me not your lying eyes!

Camlon · Sep 17, 2012

jet57 said:
I didn't use anything desperately; so knock it off. I found another source that validates my argument.

What kind of denial is this? Do I need to link to you the payscale again that I got from your own source?

Moreover, now its $76 large? You make it up as you go along.

76K is what they earn if you are not excluding pension contributions. If you exclude it, it is still 71K. Nowhere close to 54K or 47K.

Where is your non-debunked source that they are earning 54K or 47K?

jet57 · Sep 17, 2012

OpportunityCost said:
Dont pay attention to the numbers, stick it to the man. Hes GREEEEEDY and EEEEEVIIIIILLL.

Listen to me not your lying eyes!

Your post sounds rather lacking in any kind of reality.

jet57 · Sep 17, 2012

Camlon said:
What kind of denial is this? Do I need to link to you the payscale again that I got from your own source?

76K is what they earn if you are not excluding pension contributions. If you exclude it, it is still 71K. Nowhere close to 54K or 47K.

Where is your non-debunked source that they are earning 54K or 47K?

Oh, so now it's $71 is it? I told you those numbers include a package. (I told you that you were just making it up as you went along). And it is preposterous that the average is $75,K: whrage wat about all the overtime?? What about receipts for out of pocket materials for the class??

None of that is in there is it? The average would be sooo much higher. And if it does include overtime; then I'm right again aren't I.

Sorry dude: you're only seeing what you want to see. You're doing all you can to back the board and make social enemies out of these teachers.

4Horsemen · Sep 17, 2012

Don't let Obama find out it's money to be made from this Teacher's union strike. He'll get on TV and say
"YOU DIDN'T SAVE ALL THAT MONEY!!!...WE DID !!"""

Voltaire X · Sep 17, 2012

The salary is $76k.

Chicago Teacher Strike Enters Week 2, Rahm Emanuel Seeks Injunction (PHOTOS, LIVE UPDATES)

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/DougMacE/172193

Chicago mayor takes legal action over strike - Americas - Al Jazeera English

These teachers are demand pay raises in the midst of a major budget crisis. They are already making well above the median salary for their city. I hope they aren't given a single dime more. I can understand why they are upset about the standardized test scores being used to evaluate teachers, though. Teachers NEED to be evaluated, but test scores aren't the way to do that.

Camlon · Sep 17, 2012

jet57 said:
Oh, so now it's $71 is it? I told you those numbers include a package. (I told you that you were just making it up as you went along). And it is preposterous that the average is $75,K: whrage wat about all the overtime?? What about receipts for out of pocket materials for the class??

None of that is in there is it? The average would be sooo much higher. And if it does include overtime; then I'm right again aren't I.

Sorry dude: you're only seeing what you want to see. You're doing all you can to back the board and make social enemies out of these teachers.

How much they earn is dependent on how you look at it. Do you look at mean, median, overtime, with pensions, without pensions, all compensation, etc. But reality is, I have given sources for my numbers and Voltaire X is backing them up with more sources. I think looking at 76K is more fair as that is what we would compare other professions with. All your sources has either gone against you or been debunked. So no you are not right before you can provide new evidence for your number which is 47K or 54K. And even if you do, which you won't. You will still be wrong as you did provide wrong sources.

However you seem to be way too weak to admit your mistake. It is just embarrassing to see how you pretend your sources did not go against you, and how you did not run away and then you come back pretending I didn't even write it.

Out of pocket materials for the class is minicule and not more than what it would costs for out of pocket exenses for many other jobs. And this has nothing to do with making enemies out of the teachers. This is about facts which you refuse to admit.

KevinKohler · Sep 17, 2012

Let's see, my out of pocket for working in a restaurant....

I have to buy about 2-3 new pairs of shoes per year, as working in a kitchen is very hard on shoes. All kinds of abrasive cleaners, and grease, and god knows what other juices, etc. They just wear out, or the soles wear through. At about 50-70 bucks a pop for a decent pair, let's call that 155 per year.

Pants, pants pants. I go through pants like crazy. As a manager, I can't just roll in with jeans, either. They have to be black slacks. I can typically get them when Sears has sales, at around 25 bucks a pair. I buy at LEAST 4 pairs per year, so we'll call that 100 bucks per year.

Shirts. Typically, these are provided by the company, and typically, they cost about 10 bucks, and typically, they just take it out of your paycheck, so at least it's tax free, but then, EVERYTHING a teacher buys for the classroom is tax free, ain't it? However, where I work, I have to wear button down dress shirts, no uniform. And I tend to find them in the 20 dollar range...I like Van Heuson. I don't actually go through too many of these, so, honestly, we'll say that's just 40 buck per year.

Now, just in clothing, I am at 295 bucks per year. And this is for a job that does not require TOOLS. And NONE of my supplies are easily tax deductible. I don't get to wave a teacher card, or whatever, and have my 6% knocked off.

Just saying.

American · Sep 17, 2012

KevinKohler said:
Let's see, my out of pocket for working in a restaurant....

I have to buy about 2-3 new pairs of shoes per year, as working in a kitchen is very hard on shoes. All kinds of abrasive cleaners, and grease, and god knows what other juices, etc. They just wear out, or the soles wear through. At about 50-70 bucks a pop for a decent pair, let's call that 155 per year.

Pants, pants pants. I go through pants like crazy. As a manager, I can't just roll in with jeans, either. They have to be black slacks. I can typically get them when Sears has sales, at around 25 bucks a pair. I buy at LEAST 4 pairs per year, so we'll call that 100 bucks per year.

Shirts. Typically, these are provided by the company, and typically, they cost about 10 bucks, and typically, they just take it out of your paycheck, so at least it's tax free, but then, EVERYTHING a teacher buys for the classroom is tax free, ain't it? However, where I work, I have to wear button down dress shirts, no uniform. And I tend to find them in the 20 dollar range...I like Van Heuson. I don't actually go through too many of these, so, honestly, we'll say that's just 40 buck per year.

Now, just in clothing, I am at 295 bucks per year. And this is for a job that does not require TOOLS. And NONE of my supplies are easily tax deductible. I don't get to wave a teacher card, or whatever, and have my 6% knocked off.

Just saying.

Is that your Corvette there?

American · Sep 17, 2012

The Godfather is now trying to sue the teachers union to make them stop striking. See how supportive liberals are when it affects them. :lamo That's Chicago values.

jet57 · Sep 17, 2012

American said:
The Godfather is now trying to sue the teachers union to make them stop striking. See how supportive liberals are when it affects them. :lamo That's Chicago values.

The stike's all but settled now. The union wants to read the agreement and ratify it. Rham got his head handed to him.

KevinKohler · Sep 17, 2012

American said:
Is that your Corvette there?

Yup. My 76', resto modified. When I got it, I decided it needs to be as fast as it looks...and, frankly, off the factory line, these cars were slower than a regular civic from today. Just wouldn't do.

Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

OpportunityCost

MMC

lpast

4Horsemen

Dickieboy

Binky

Well-known member

jet57

OpportunityCost

Camlon

jet57

Camlon

jet57

jet57

OpportunityCost

Camlon

jet57

jet57

4Horsemen

Voltaire X

Well-known member

Camlon

KevinKohler

American

Trump Grump Whisperer

American

Trump Grump Whisperer

jet57

KevinKohler