Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

Camlon · Sep 14, 2012

jet57 said:
As I said, I have produced consistent numbers that verify my argument.

My sources are good; my argument is better, my experience is extstensive and if you can't hack: then bye to you.

So people who work at walmart earns 54K average? And doctors earn 63K in average in Chicago? You seriously believe that is true?

All of your sources got debunked. You are not defending them anymore, you are just saying they are good with absolutely no explanation. Neither are they consistent. One of your sources gave 48K in average, while the other gave you 54K average for people who start out as teachers.

Why is it so hard for you to admit you are wrong. In this case you are clearly wrong. Just admit it.

Camlon · Sep 14, 2012

Also, according to your source math teachers earn 40K, while music teacher earns 53K and teachers assistants earn 47K in Chicago. How do you explain that?

Do you believe that is true as well. Or maybe your source is total garbage.

Dickieboy · Sep 16, 2012

jet57 said:
As I said, I have produced consistent numbers that verify my argument.

CPS? No, I was a Teamster and worked very closely with ILWU and other federations for most of my adult life. Contract negotiations always have a similar dynamic that is predictable. And as I said, the teachers just about have this thing in the bag anyway.
And yes, when I'm wrong I admit it. How about you?

Ooops...

News from The Associated Press

Seems your predictions are as accurate as Nancy's...:lamo

jet57 · Sep 16, 2012

Dickieboy said:
Ooops...

News from The Associated Press

Seems your predictions are as accurate as Nancy's...:lamo

We'll see.

MaggieD · Sep 16, 2012

jet57 said:
As I said, I have produced consistent numbers that verify my argument.

CPS? No, I was a Teamster and worked very closely with ILWU and other federations for most of my adult life. Contract negotiations always have a similar dynamic that is predictable. And as I said, the teachers just about have this thing in the bag anyway.

And yes, when I'm wrong I admit it. How about you?

You haven't admitted you're wrong about salaries...and you are. Now I understand, though. You're coming from "private sector union experience." A totally different ball of wax.

jet57 · Sep 16, 2012

MaggieD said:
You haven't admitted you're wrong about salaries...and you are. Now I understand, though. You're coming from "private sector union experience." A totally different ball of wax.

You know I posted the CPS pay schedule as well, and it shows that I'm right.

MaggieD · Sep 16, 2012

jet57 said:
You know I posted the CPS pay schedule as well, and it shows that I'm right.

No, it doesn't.

jet57 · Sep 16, 2012

MaggieD said:
No, it doesn't.

I'm afraid it does.

Dickieboy · Sep 16, 2012

jet57 said:
You know I posted the CPS pay schedule as well, and it shows that I'm right.

I watched your source CLOSELY, I thought, but I missed this pay schedule. I DID see a CPS schedule that indicated the salaries of administrators(?) but not teachers...please point it out...thank you!

jet57 · Sep 17, 2012

Dickieboy said:
I watched your source CLOSELY, I thought, but I missed this pay schedule. I DID see a CPS schedule that indicated the salaries of administrators(?) but not teachers...please point it out...thank you!

It's in there. And how about admin making 125 large etc a year?

Camlon · Sep 17, 2012

jet57 said:
You know I posted the CPS pay schedule as well, and it shows that I'm right.

No, your pay schedule show that you were wrong. Your pay schedules said

Lane I
Base: $49,159
5 years: $59,585
20 years: $81,708

Lanes II (have a masters degree)
Base: $52,564
5 years: $62,991
20 years: $85,215

Lane V (Masters degree and 45 graduate credits)
Base Salary: $57,671
5 Years: $68,099
20 years: $90,473

45 gradate credits represent 675 hours, so not very much.

What did jet57 suggest teachers earn in Chicago?

jet57 said:
Here's another source on this numbers: Teaching Positions Salaries in Chicago, IL | Simply Hired

Average Teaching Positions Salaries
The average salary for teaching positions jobs in Chicago, IL is $54,000. Average teaching positions salaries can vary greatly due to company, location, industry, experience and benefits.

Click to expand...

So, there ya go.

jet57 said:
And here's another on teachers: $47,000 Salary & Benefits

Jet57 you were wrong. It is time for you to admit you were wrong!

jet57 · Sep 17, 2012

Camlon said:
Your pay schedules said

Lane I
Base salary of $49,159.
five years, $59,585.
20 years of service,$81,708 per year.

Lanes II (have a masters degree)
Base: $52,564
5 years $62,991
20 years, $85,215.

Lane V (Masters degree and 45 graduate credits)
Base Salary: $57,671
5 Years: $68,099.
20 years: $90,473.

45 gradate credits represent 675 hours, so not very much.

What did jet57 suggest teachers earn in Chicago?

Jet57 you were wrong. It is time for you to admit you were wrong!

Sorry; but it's right there. I'm right. Here's the contract: http://www.ctunet.com/grievances/te...ollective-Bargaining-Agreement.pdf?1294199486 you'll not that pay schedules are broken into "educational qulifications / advanced degrees" and that the pension pickup adds as much as $6,000.

No, you guys are reading what you want instead of what's there.

Camlon · Sep 17, 2012

jet57 said:
Sorry; but it's right there. I'm right. Here's the contract: http://www.ctunet.com/grievances/te...ollective-Bargaining-Agreement.pdf?1294199486 you'll not that pay schedules are broken into "educational qulifications / advanced degrees" and that the pension pickup adds as much as $6,000.

No, you guys are reading what you want instead of what's there.

Oh.. so you are right, but the link you gave is wrong. Now you are hoping this link will give you different results?

You do realize that most people pay money into their own pension. Why should you deduct money because you are paying pension?

I looked through your source and guess what I found looking at page 121. In what universe will those pay schedules lead to an average wage of 53K / 47K USD?

Every single source you have given has either been debunked or is going against you. Why is it so incredibly hard for you to admit you were wrong?

MMC · Sep 17, 2012

Looks like the delegates didnt vote Sunday. Now Emaunel is taking thme into Court today to get an injunction to send them back to work. Here the Teachers Union says they have a tentative agreement, same with CPS. All stated Saturday. Just need to get everything done into fine print. NoW lewis has come otu with some more excuses for the Teachers Union.

Do you think the Union should have to put out a list of the Names of all the Delegates who are passing the buck here.

Didn't even take a week and already the Parents are now singing another tune. As they thought the kids would be back in school Monday. Now they are saying Not even a Chance until Wed. 3 Different parents brought up the fact that this Union knew all along that it was going to strike. Yet they did nothing over the somethings to prevent this from happening. That they waited until the Kids were going to go back to school

Do you think this was deliberate by the Union? The Parents say.....yes. As there was no reason to go thru the whole Sunner without addressing these issue?

Course another Union Rep said they were happy with the proceedings. Did this individual forget about the Kids. One thing is a fact. This strike was not for the Kids Best Interests. But it was for Teachers who make more than 98% of all other teachers across the country.

lpast · Sep 17, 2012

Get ready theres going to be alot more strikes in the future..

OpportunityCost · Sep 17, 2012

lpast said:
Get ready theres going to be alot more strikes in the future..

Not in Republican states.

They say Rahm plays hardball but he isnt. If he were serious he would start replacing teachers. Thats how you break a strike and make people come to the table and bargain in good faith, give them no other choice. The feeling amongst unions is that the longer a strike continues the more pull they have. Thats only true up to and until you start replacing them and demonstrating quite clearly they ARE replaceable.

In today's economy, what they are doing would be tantamount to economic suicide in the private sector. It says a lot about the arrogance of public sector unions to call a strike now and in a state that is in a financial black hole.

lpast · Sep 17, 2012

OpportunityCost said:
Not in Republican states.

They say Rahm plays hardball but he isnt. If he were serious he would start replacing teachers. Thats how you break a strike and make people come to the table and bargain in good faith, give them no other choice. The feeling amongst unions is that the longer a strike continues the more pull they have. Thats only true up to and until you start replacing them and demonstrating quite clearly they ARE replaceable.

In today's economy, what they are doing would be tantamount to economic suicide in the private sector. It says a lot about the arrogance of public sector unions to call a strike now and in a state that is in a financial black hole.

There will be more in republican states...stay tuned...there a court war going on in every one of the teatard states that have govs that attacked the working class to give to the rich....Rick Scott...Scott Walker...and Christies law suits are in but havent started yet...but they will and strikes are coming...bet on it

OpportunityCost · Sep 17, 2012

lpast said:
There will be more in republican states...stay tuned...there a court war going on in every one of the teatard states that have govs that attacked the working class to give to the rich....Rick Scott...Scott Walker...and Christies law suits are in but havent started yet...but they will and strikes are coming...bet on it

Tout that occupy propoganda line, comrade! Seriously, the union in Wisconsin was just as out of control. School districts are turning in budgets closer to balance than anything in a decade. Its not attacking the working class and giving to the rich to expect teachers to contribute to their own retirement and medical expenses.

Teatard? Grow up.

Camlon · Sep 17, 2012

lpast said:
There will be more in republican states...stay tuned...there a court war going on in every one of the teatard states that have govs that attacked the working class to give to the rich....Rick Scott...Scott Walker...and Christies law suits are in but havent started yet...but they will and strikes are coming...bet on it

Bring them on.

What makes you think you will win this battle when you got crushed in the last one. Even in Illinois, a deep blue state, people are getting frustrated by striking teachers. How do you think they are going to react in Wisconsin?

If they strike, then they are going to be replaced, one by one. It won't take long before they come back to the barganing table with reasonable demands.

MMC · Sep 17, 2012

OpportunityCost said:
Not in Republican states.

They say Rahm plays hardball but he isnt. If he were serious he would start replacing teachers. Thats how you break a strike and make people come to the table and bargain in good faith, give them no other choice. The feeling amongst unions is that the longer a strike continues the more pull they have. Thats only true up to and until you start replacing them and demonstrating quite clearly they ARE replaceable.

In today's economy, what they are doing would be tantamount to economic suicide in the private sector. It says a lot about the arrogance of public sector unions to call a strike now and in a state that is in a financial black hole.

Emanuel the Socialist is playing with them.....I don't know if it is HardBall (especially if the base political hackery is by Chris Matthews. But if the Demos cannot see that both Emanuel and the Govenor......Quinn. Who also mentioned teachers unions, plus pension reform. He was upset that his own Party kicked the can down the road after the election.
That the split in this New Democratic Party of Being World Citizen is going to divide them even more.

IMO bout time to as they have dived everybody else up so neat and square like. That all they have left is to divide themselves.....and yes we are starting to see them split. Just like with the Republican. Which again to me is a good thing. Splitting both. Everybody can biznitch about Chicago Politics.....but one thing is for certain. That Machine will show you those differences all along their lines. As well as with The DNC and all those SUperdelgates that get to vote Twice for things in their own party.

lpast · Sep 17, 2012

OpportunityCost said:
Tout that occupy propoganda line, comrade! Seriously, the union in Wisconsin was just as out of control. School districts are turning in budgets closer to balance than anything in a decade. Its not attacking the working class and giving to the rich to expect teachers to contribute to their own retirement and medical expenses.

Teatard? Grow up.

Comrade? grow up...and if you dont like what you hear...your going to have to get used to it arent you

the world doesnt evolve around what you want or think...

lpast · Sep 17, 2012

Camlon said:
Bring them on.

What makes you think you will win this battle when you got crushed in the last one. Even in Illinois, a deep blue state, people are getting frustrated by striking teachers. How do you think they are going to react in Wisconsin?

If they strike, then they are going to be replaced, one by one. It won't take long before they come back to the barganing table with reasonable demands.

Oh they will....this is the beginning...the far right went to far

Camlon · Sep 17, 2012

lpast said:
Oh they will....this is the beginning...the far right went to far

Problem is, the unions can only do as much as the public allows them to. Without the public, unions are nothing.

A large majority supports Scott Walker already. A strike will just make him and his actions more popular. You saw what happened in 1981 PATCO strike. You want that to happen again?

Dickieboy · Sep 17, 2012

jet57 said:
It's in there. And how about admin making 125 large etc a year?

Let me give your debate technique a shot...no it's not...

I'm sure my argument is just as effective...right? :lamo

OpportunityCost · Sep 17, 2012

lpast said:
Comrade? grow up...and if you dont like what you hear...your going to have to get used to it arent you the world doesnt evolve around what you want or think...

If you want to regurgitate occupy propoganda, go for it. Just dont expect to be taken seriously.

Along the same line if you use terms like rethuglicans, teatards and the like, you are just revealing you are not about anything but agitation, and certainly not debate.

I dont demand the world revolve around what I think. Follow your own advice.

This teachers strike is about naked greed and escape from accountability. Public opinion is not with them on this one.