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Thread: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

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    In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples - CSMonitor.com


    ATLANTA

    Three states where members of the clergy and justices of the peace today marry gay couples argued on Friday that it’s a violation of states’ rights for the federal government to then “unmarry” those people under the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA).
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    In an amicus brief to a New York case involving a lesbian widow, Vermont, Connecticut, and New York argue that the federal government had no right, despite the federal designation of marriage as being between a man and a woman, to demand $350,000 in estate taxes when Edie Windsor’s partner died. That would not have happened under a marital tax deduction that lets other married couples pass their assets to their spouse without penalty.

    The three states who filed amicus briefs argue that states regulate marriage and family relationships and that Congress doesn’t have constitutional authority to interfere with that license at any level.

    Several federal and state judges have struck down parts of DOMA, but it was only earlier this year that a federal appeals court in Boston, called it discriminatory regarding partner benefits, saying the law “fails the test” when looking at its “disparate impact on minority interests and federalism concerns.”
    I figured it was going to end up like this. It may be that federal recognition of gay marriage will happen over the next year or two.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    I've been saying this for years. The solution to this is so simple. Run a bill through Congress that amends every law that references "marriage" and change to "civil union", "state recognized union," "legal union" or whatever (biggest impact would likely be the tax code). Add a stipulation that no institution can be sued to refusing to "marry" anyone and call it a day. Important aspect as where same sex marriage has been legally allowed, litigation against religious institutions exploded.

    Solves the problem. No "separate but equal" and everyone is the same in the eyes of the federal government.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    I've been saying this for years. The solution to this is so simple. Run a bill through Congress that amends every law that references "marriage" and change to "civil union", "state recognized union," "legal union" or whatever (biggest impact would likely be the tax code). Add a stipulation that no institution can be sued to refusing to "marry" anyone and call it a day. Important aspect as where same sex marriage has been legally allowed, litigation against religious institutions exploded.

    Solves the problem. No "separate but equal" and everyone is the same in the eyes of the federal government.
    Not a bad idea. For some groups the primary objection is that the word "married" is a special term. If nobody is "married" in a legal sense, but are in some sort of union regardless, it would make that objection go away and probably help lend support for the civil rights of gay people.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Problem is entrenchment. The gay community as well as those that oppose same sex marriage have adopted an all or nothing approach.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Problem is entrenchment. The gay community as well as those that oppose same sex marriage have adopted an all or nothing approach.
    For the gay community an all or nothing approach is what we need. Why should I have to compromise on my rights just because someone believes that their deity says it is wrong?
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    For the gay community an all or nothing approach is what we need. Why should I have to compromise on my rights just because someone believes that their deity says it is wrong?
    Because then you'd be compromising their rights. Whats needed is a compromise which is what occurs when rights are at conflict. Which is why I think the solution I proposed is the best way forward. It removes the issue of contention which is marriage and changes to what it really is, a legal union or contractual union between two people.

    The litigation stipulation is as important. Why should someone be able to sue a church that refuses to conduct a ceremony for someone that goes against its doctrine?

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Because then you'd be compromising their rights. Whats needed is a compromise which is what occurs when rights are at conflict. Which is why I think the solution I proposed is the best way forward. It removes the issue of contention which is marriage and changes to what it really is, a legal union or contractual union between two people.

    The litigation stipulation is as important. Why should someone be able to sue a church that refuses to conduct a ceremony for someone that goes against its doctrine?
    Well, I don't care about churches. Marriage is a civil not a religious institution, which is why you need a marriage license to be officially married.

    To your other point, there anti-SSM people would not be compromising their rights as in this case none of their rights are in danger of being infringed upon.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Well, I don't care about churches. Marriage is a civil not a religious institution, which is why you need a marriage license to be officially married.

    To your other point, there anti-SSM people would not be compromising their rights as in this case none of their rights are in danger of being infringed upon.
    "Marriage" is a civil and religious institution, to claim otherwise is simply false. Churches or private families agreements were the only "marriage licenses". Wasn't until the late 1800s when States got involved. So, if you change the term "marriage" to one of the ones I proposed, under the law, it allows private institutions to decide their "marriage" guidelines. Would also allow churches in favor of same sex unions to use the term marriage as well.

    And at the end of the day, "marriage" would likely remain common in the description of two people together under a legal union.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    "Marriage" is a civil and religious institution, to claim otherwise is simply false. Churches or private families agreements were the only "marriage licenses." Wasn't until the late 1800s when States got involved. So, if you change the term "marriage" to one of the ones I proposed, under the law, it allows private institutions to decide their "marriage" guidelines. Would also allow churches in favor of same sex unions to use the term marriage as well.

    And at the end of the day, "marriage" would likely remain common in the description of two people together under a legal union.
    Ah! Didn't know that. However, I still think that the all or nothing approach is the way to go.

    Also, edited for punctuation :P
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    I still find it hilarious that America is still fighting about same-sex marriage get with the times.

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