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Thread: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Umm, the only thing that the government's current recognition of marriage give you is the "perks" I mentioned. Otherwise, it has no impact on marriage whatsoever.
    Then why would I agree to having a civil union when somebody going to a church gets marriage? What's in it for me? Why would I agree to this change?

    Not sure your point here. Are you saying you want a religious organization to be forced to recognize a marriage they don't believe in?
    No. I'm saying that religious organizations are not forced to recognize such marriages anyway.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Then why would I agree to having a civil union when somebody going to a church gets marriage? What's in it for me?
    You can go to a church that would perform a marriage ceremony a same sex couple, thats whats "in it for you." On fact, you can do that right now. The change would that in the eyes of the federal government, your union would be recognized with all the perks that come with it.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    You can go to a church that would perform a marriage ceremony a same sex couple, thats whats "in it for you." On fact, you can do that right now. The change would that in the eyes of the federal government, your union would be recognized with all the perks that come with it.
    Going to a church to get my marriage performed would not be a perk -- it would be an additional obligation.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Going to a church to get my marriage performed would not be a perk -- it would be an additional obligation.
    An obligation to whom?

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    An obligation to whom?
    You get three guesses and the first two don't count.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Going to a church to get my marriage performed would not be a perk -- it would be an additional obligation.
    You wouldn't have to go to church to perform a marriage ceremony. There are plenty of non-religious organization that conduct various types of marriage ceremonies.

    So, if thats not something you "want", then why not just call yourself "married" after getting a recognized civil union. Just like, under what I proposed, an opposite sex couple would do if they just went to a justice of the peace.

    In essence, what you want is something that you're capable of achieving on your own. In fact, you can do that right now. If you're in a committed relationship, why not just call yourself "married?"

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    You wouldn't have to go to church to perform a marriage ceremony. There are plenty of non-religious organization that conduct various types of marriage ceremonies.

    So, if thats not something you "want", then why not just call yourself "married" after getting a recognized civil union. Just like, under what I proposed, an opposite sex couple would do if they just went to a justice of the peace.

    In essence, what you want is something that you're capable of achieving on your own. In fact, you can do that right now. If you're in a committed relationship, why not just call yourself "married?"
    Why not just call yourself married. You can, you know.

    Unless you're gay, of course.

    So far, zero for zero on explaining to me how it would be any benefit to me to change from the status quo.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Why not just call yourself married. You can, you know.

    Unless you're gay, of course.

    So far, zero for zero on explaining to me how it would be any benefit to me to change from the status quo.
    If thats how you feel, you're so entrenched that you're missing the big picture.

    So I'll try this simply for you since it appears to be flying right over your head.

    1. Taking marriage out of the government and replacing it with a civil union would meet the need of legal recognition of a two people in a union as this is all the term "marriage" means in accordance with law.

    2. If you so desire a "marriage ceremony," under this concept, you could find someone to perform it for you as there are churches and non-religious organizations that perform them. If you don't want that, thats your choice, you'd still be legally together in the eyes of the law with all the "perks" that come with it. Which would be the only real change that would occur as same sex couples can get married today. So if you don't see that as a "benefit," than not sure what else you want?

    The impression I'm getting from you is that you want people who don't believe or agree with same marriage to be somehow forced to do so. Is that it?

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    If thats how you feel, you're so entrenched that you're missing the big picture.

    So I'll try this simply for you since it appears to be flying right over your head.

    1. Taking marriage out of the government and replacing it with a civil union would meet the need of legal recognition of a two people in a union as this is all the term "marriage" means in accordance with law.

    2. If you so desire a "marriage ceremony," under this concept, you could find someone to perform it for you as there are churches and non-religious organizations that perform them. If you don't want that, thats your choice, you'd still be legally together in the eyes of the law with all the "perks" that come with it. Which would be the only real change that would occur as same sex couples can get married today. So if you don't see that as a "benefit," than not sure what else you want?

    The impression I'm getting from you is that you want people who don't believe or agree with same marriage to be somehow forced to do so. Is that it?
    No. I can get married now under the current status quo. Without the church. And you still can't explain how any change would benefit me. How many times have I asked you to explain the benefit of a change now? Five times? Six times, and still nothing?

    Go back to the drawing board and think your position through a little longer. It's not fully baked yet.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    No. I can get married now under the current status quo. Without the church.
    Yeah, I've said that several times already. The benefit, all would receive the same recognition under the law which allows everyone the same rights and privileges that come with it.

    If you feel that doesn't benefit you, then what do you want? Explain it.

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