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Thread: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Except that churches wanting to monopolize marriages for themselves is absolutely entrenched and in no way a compromise, no matter how much you may want to package it as that. You're not the only one who is aware of the symbolic and historic weight that a marriage conveys, so your "compromise" is transparent to everyone else.
    Nothing in such a law as Fishstyx proposes would allow churches a monopoly on "marriage". It would remove Marriage from state and federal law.
    You could have any number of community organizations, groups, ad infinitum that recognize marriage, that are NOT religious.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    ROFLMAO@ lefties suddenly being proponents of states' rights.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Nothing in such a law as Fishstyx proposes would allow churches a monopoly on "marriage". It would remove Marriage from state and federal law.
    What would be the benefit of this?

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    What I'm getting a kick out of is these people who want to take marriage of government, they say how awesome it's gonna be when that happens, and how happy I and every one else should be when we finally get to have civil unions instead of this awful, burdensome marriage. But they cannot in any detail whatsoever explain to me how this could be of any benefit to me or why I should be grateful for it.

    Another guy I debated this with said that if government got out of marriage, I would have more freedom. Seriously, that was his answer. So of course I asked him, what perks would come with this newfound freedom? "Liberty," he replied. Yeah, I said, liberty is freedom. Got it. So what do I get from this liberty? You know, what's in it for me? "What, you don't think freedom is its own reward?" he said. "You like slavery?" Well no, I don't like slavery. But normally when I think of losing my freedom, I imagine specific perks that are being denied to me, such as freedom speech, the right to vote, free passage through the states and the world, stuff like that. Details.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Did you have a minister/priest/rabbi/pastor/justice of the peace administer the vows and sign your "marriage License"?
    No, I didn't.

    That's why the state should be in the civil union business and leave the marriage ceremonies to the religions.
    As I replied before, I have no problem with that. However, the majority of even STRAIGHT couples are so entrenched in marriage they wouldn't agree to it. Why do you think it hasn't already been implemented?

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by vendur View Post
    ROFLMAO@ lefties suddenly being proponents of states' rights.
    And all the right-wingers against it. It's almost as if "states rights" is not a universal, absolute standard where you either support it or don't.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Nothing in such a law as Fishstyx proposes would allow churches a monopoly on "marriage". It would remove Marriage from state and federal law.
    You could have any number of community organizations, groups, ad infinitum that recognize marriage, that are NOT religious.
    Why do that? Why does religion get to own that word? I want to own that word.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    What I'm getting a kick out of is these people who want to take marriage of government, they say how awesome it's gonna be when that happens, and how happy I and every one else should be when we finally get to have civil unions instead of this awful, burdensome marriage. But they cannot in any detail whatsoever explain to me how this could be of any benefit to me or why I should be grateful for it.
    The benefit is simple, you're just ignoring it. You'd receive the same financial benefit in the terms of taxes, same rights for the purpose of next of kin. As the civil union, in the eyes of the government, would apply to all, opposite and same sex unions.

    And you're missing a key point in what I proposed. You wouldn't be denied "burdensome marriage." There are plenty of churches and other non-religious organizations that conduct marriage ceremonies for same sex couples. The compromise would be that those religious organization that oppose same sex marriage would not be compelled via the law or lawsuits to perform them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Why do that? Why does religion get to own that word? I want to own that word.
    They don't, they get to choose who they perform marriage ceremonies for.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    The benefit is simple, you're just ignoring it. You'd receive the same financial benefit in the terms of taxes, same rights for the purpose of next of kin. As the civil union, in the eyes of the government, would apply to all, opposite and same sex unions.
    I didn't ask if I'd get to keep the same perks of marriage, I asked what the benefits would be of government getting out of marriage. Your post doesn't answer this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    The compromise would be that those religious organization that oppose same sex marriage would not be compelled via the law or lawsuits to perform them.
    Are religious organizations required to recognize other types of marriages now?

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I didn't ask if I'd get to keep the same perks of marriage, I asked what the benefits would be of government getting out of marriage. Your post doesn't answer this.
    Umm, the only thing that the government's current recognition of marriage give you is the "perks" I mentioned. Otherwise, it has no impact on marriage whatsoever.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Are religious organizations required to recognize other types of marriages now?
    Not sure your point here. Are you saying you want a religious organization to be forced to recognize a marriage they don't believe in?

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