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Thread: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

  1. #41
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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    It is difficult to follow some of the 'logic' in this discussion.

    IF marriage is just a word why does the anti SSM crowd fight so hard for it?

    IF churches can pick and choose who they allow to marry in their church, one church cited 'tradition' for not allowing a black couple to marry in their church and it seems to fly... then why claim it can be forced to do same sex marriage?

    IF what Europe does is cited by the liberal side as a good thing, conservatives are quick to point out we are not Europe, but when Europe has a bill PENDING the conservatives leap up to proclaim it could happen here? (FYI, to use a bill PENDING over there is like using a bill PENDING here that gets shot down either in the floor vote or by the courts, not a strong reason)

    Now let us be a bit more honest about The Church and Marriage.

    Our society and the balance between Church, State, and The People has been evolving over the centuries. Once upon a time a man who was thought to be Gawd's sole representative on this earth sat in Rome and judged the right or wrong of national leaders. Commanded all Christian nations to 'defend' the Holy Lands and they mobilized to do just that. The Church was in many important ways The State when it came to social issues.

    Europe fought many wars over the Gawds they made. The State started moving in on The Church's territory, but still local parishes could tax The People to support The Church and it's missions.

    Now The State does many of The Churches civil functions. Monetary support of The Church is voluntary, give or take a few 'faith based' welfare funding bills.

    Now the man who sits in Rome can proclaim many things and few National leaders do more than lip service, some outright refuse to listen and many other religious leaders think he is the anti-Christ!

    Church 'leaders' can proclaim and demand many things, few national leaders, the better ones, do little more than nod in their collective direction and outright denounce many of them.

    The State has taken over what marriage means here on earth and what rights and privileges it carries.

    The love of My Life and I got MARRIED in a district judge's office, not CIVIL UNIONED. The Church had NOTHING to do with it, nor defining what legal rights it included.

    Some screwball may try and 'force' The Church to do gay marriages, just like some screwball tries to get unconstitutional crap passed and it will get about as far.

    I don't see how Ted and Bob getting married takes anything away from what the Mrs and I have had for over a quarter century.

    It doesn't pick my pocket or break my leg...
    exactly the fact is, it doesnt in reality and claiming otherwise is just dishonesty
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  2. #42
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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Rastafarians smoking pot as their sacrament takes nothing away from any of the sacraments of other religions (including some tribes that are allowed peyote as their sacrament), and yet the courts still uphold the ban.

  3. #43
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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Rastafarians smoking pot as their sacrament takes nothing away from any of the sacraments of other religions (including some tribes that are allowed peyote as their sacrament), and yet the courts still uphold the ban.
    That would be a hilarious vector to legalize weed.

  4. #44
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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Which the Commerce Clause trumps. You can still be busted for carrying weed across state lines when travelling from Oregon to California despite your having a medical marajuana license that is honored in both states. The courts have upheld this time and again.
    Marriage isn't commerce, so I don't see the relevance of the commerce clause.

  5. #45
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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Well, I don't care about churches. Marriage is a civil not a religious institution, which is why you need a marriage license to be officially married.

    To your other point, there anti-SSM people would not be compromising their rights as in this case none of their rights are in danger of being infringed upon.
    Unless they are sued for not marrying a same sex couple, because it would go against their religious convictions. At that point, their 1st Amendment rights are being crapped on.

    Fishstyx is right on, IMO. Make sure no one can get sued for refusing to perform a same sex marriage, make the **** leagal and let's move on.

    This is one issue that I wish the Republicans would just let go, because there are so many more important things to deal with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #46
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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    I've been saying this for years. The solution to this is so simple. Run a bill through Congress that amends every law that references "marriage" and change to "civil union", "state recognized union," "legal union" or whatever (biggest impact would likely be the tax code). Add a stipulation that no institution can be sued to refusing to "marry" anyone and call it a day. Important aspect as where same sex marriage has been legally allowed, litigation against religious institutions exploded.
    (bold mine)

    Just one problem with this: married people aren't going to want their marriages to now be referred to as civil unions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Solves the problem. No "separate but equal" and everyone is the same in the eyes of the federal government.
    That's right, cause both water fountains work just as well.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 09-11-12 at 02:26 AM.

  7. #47
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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    I've been saying this for years. The solution to this is so simple. Run a bill through Congress that amends every law that references "marriage" and change to "civil union", "state recognized union," "legal union" or whatever (biggest impact would likely be the tax code). Add a stipulation that no institution can be sued to refusing to "marry" anyone and call it a day. Important aspect as where same sex marriage has been legally allowed, litigation against religious institutions exploded.

    Solves the problem. No "separate but equal" and everyone is the same in the eyes of the federal government.
    Great idea and it would work except for the fact that it is not the word marriage that is really the objection. It's the fact that a same sex union is "accepted" by the laws of the land and given a stamp of approval because of it. It's sad but it always seems a majority likes to control a minority and punish them for being different. That's what makes our "Bill of Rights' so important, it stops that from happening.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    (bold mine)

    Just one problem with this: married people aren't going to want their marriages to now be referred to as civil unions.
    Think you'd be surprised. The church would still refer to as marriage. The state license would say civil unions. I could care less whats on my "marriage license."

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Great idea and it would work except for the fact that it is not the word marriage that is really the objection. It's the fact that a same sex union is "accepted" by the laws of the land and given a stamp of approval because of it. It's sad but it always seems a majority likes to control a minority and punish them for being different. That's what makes our "Bill of Rights' so important, it stops that from happening.
    Don't know about that. Most polling on the matter has the overwhelming majority support the civil union concept.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    "Marriage" is a civil and religious institution, to claim otherwise is simply false.
    I am married and it is LEGALLY recognized in every state and I am not of a religious institution. YOU may treat yours as religious, but marriage is a civil institution.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I am married and it is LEGALLY recognized in every state and I am not of a religious institution. YOU may treat yours as religious, but marriage is a civil institution.
    I said its both, point is simple as the polls for civil unions prove. If you scrub "marriage" from government's lawbooks books and change to civil union, does anything really change? All rights and benefits would be the same, would it not? Its putting the meaning of marriage back where it belongs, between the two individuals.

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