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Thread: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Ah! Didn't know that. However, I still think that the all or nothing approach is the way to go.

    Also, edited for punctuation :P
    Well, thats why there is little progress on this. Everywhere where this a vote on this issue, it loses. Only places its been allowed is where judges have made it happen. Even in California which is one of the most "progressive" states in the union, failed when put to a vote. However, polls indicate a majority is open to a the idea of a civil union.

    I'd bet the idea I proposed, would win favor on the more federalist folks on the right as well.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Important aspect as where same sex marriage has been legally allowed, litigation against religious institutions exploded.
    Has it really? I've seen lots of statements claiming churches would be sued where gay marriage were made legal but churches refused on religious grounds but I've not seen anything about it actually happening, certainly not about it "exploding".

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    Has it really? I've seen lots of statements claiming churches would be sued where gay marriage were made legal but churches refused on religious grounds but I've not seen anything about it actually happening, certainly not about it "exploding".
    Look in Canada and Denmark. Denmark actually passed a bill forcing churches to perform the ceremonies.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    For the gay community an all or nothing approach is what we need. Why should I have to compromise on my rights just because someone believes that their deity says it is wrong?
    Because, from Fishstyx's suggestion you're not being asked to compromise any rights. At least be honest about it. You could have your concept of equal rights under most civil union legislation, but you want the title. A ridiculous hill to die on.

    As to the thread topic, the courts have upheld the elasticity of the commerce clause, it would apply to this. The states may control marriage within their borders, but nowhere that receives federal funding or crosses state lines. The courts cannot rule for the states in this matter - doing so would invalidate all federal drug laws. It's not going to happen and this is the gay marriage movement folks shooting themselves in the foot.
    Last edited by clownboy; 09-09-12 at 02:15 PM.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Ultimately, this is why I agree that gocernments should adopt new terminology, than people can define marriage how they see fit and nobody else has to care.

    We have issues of actual importance to not be distracted from by stuff like this.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    The federal government has no enumerated power to involve itself in state marriage. Marriage is a state affair. If the people of a state want marriages between two men, a woman, and a goat, it is none of the federal government's business. I'm sure the states didn't form their compact between themselves so that the new federal government could tell them how to run their marriages.
    Last edited by Federalist; 09-09-12 at 02:22 PM.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    The federal government has no enumerated power to involve itself in state marriage. Marriage is a state affair. If the people of a state want marriages between two men, a woman, and a goat, it is none of the federal government's business.
    Yes and no. Even if ones goes with the originalist constitutional argument, government does have the power of setting its own tax policy (16th amendment), defined benefits for government employees, etc and that is where a lot of the fight about recognition of marriage comes in.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Yes and no. Even if ones goes with the originalist constitutional argument, government does have the power of setting its own tax policy (16th amendment), defined benefits for government employees, etc and that is where a lot of the fight about recognition of marriage comes in.
    True enough. For the purposes of federal tax policy, the feds can call marriage anything they want.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Look in Canada and Denmark. Denmark actually passed a bill forcing churches to perform the ceremonies.
    Yes, but has there been an "explosion of litigation" as you stated? Do you have examples of any litigation at all?

    Such litigation may be technically possible but it's also possible (and I believe reality) that the vast majority of people involved are carrying on within the context of these laws without any significant issues.

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    Re: In looming federalism fight, three states say feds can't 'unmarry' gay couples

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    True enough. For the purposes of federal tax policy, the feds can call marriage anything they want.
    Sometimes the best way to win a battle is to change the game.

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