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Thread: Canada cuts ties with Iran, closes embassy, orders Iranian diplomats home

  1. #111
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    Re: Canada cuts ties with Iran, closes embassy, orders Iranian diplomats home

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Mostly Sunni Arabs and Christians for the refugees. Well the MB has been in Syria along with AQ. Both have nothing to do with Syria.....technically, Correct? Do you think the Shia Arabs feel the Same way in Yemen and Bahrain like the Sunni feel in Syria?

    Any reason that those Sunni Overlords shouldn't receive the same Punishment that Assad is taking?

    Btw just why are all those Christians that have been round for a couple thousand years or so. Backing Assad?
    Yemen is another whole kettle of fish.. They have been in turmoil since I was a girl.. Its pretty much lawless outside of Sana.

    In Yemen you have the warlords, the al Houthis who are funded by Iran, the Royalists, the Communists, Al Qaeda in the south and al Shaabab from Somalia have arrived.

    Currently their oil production has slowed to a trickle because of sabotage, 500 factories have closed, people are starving and the place is awash in guns. Saudi Arabia built a couple of colleges in Yemen, gives them gasoline and foreign aid.. in part because that northern border with Asir is porous and really difficult mountain terrain.. KSA is vigilant in stopping weapons and terrorists from crossing into Arabia.

    Its hard for me to comment on Bahrain.. I have American friends who have lived there for decades and they say its been grossly hyped.. a propaganda war. The day of the massive riots that were televised 300 Americans crossed the causeway for a big golf tournament.

    Most think its yet another effort by Iran to gain a foothold on the Arabian peninsula.

    The MB are not the same MB of the 1950s and 1960s... They have matured alot and have become far more politically savvy and inclusive.

    Iran also has a Christian population.. 73 registered denominations and 600 churches. I think the Christian population of Syria is smaller but every bit as old. I just don't know much about their relationship with the Assad regime.

    Syria is less tribal than Libya.. and I don't think you could call any Syrians overlords.

    I don't have any gift for prophecy.. I just try to keep track of the changing details.

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    Re: Canada cuts ties with Iran, closes embassy, orders Iranian diplomats home

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    Yemen is another whole kettle of fish.. They have been in turmoil since I was a girl.. Its pretty much lawless outside of Sana.

    In Yemen you have the warlords, the al Houthis who are funded by Iran, the Royalists, the Communists, Al Qaeda in the south and al Shaabab from Somalia have arrived.

    Currently their oil production has slowed to a trickle because of sabotage, 500 factories have closed, people are starving and the place is awash in guns. Saudi Arabia built a couple of colleges in Yemen, gives them gasoline and foreign aid.. in part because that northern border with Asir is porous and really difficult mountain terrain.. KSA is vigilant in stopping weapons and terrorists from crossing into Arabia.

    Its hard for me to comment on Bahrain.. I have American friends who have lived there for decades and they say its been grossly hyped.. a propaganda war. The day of the massive riots that were televised 300 Americans crossed the causeway for a big golf tournament.

    Most think its yet another effort by Iran to gain a foothold on the Arabian peninsula.

    The MB are not the same MB of the 1950s and 1960s... They have matured alot and have become far more politically savvy and inclusive.

    Iran also has a Christian population.. 73 registered denominations and 600 churches. I think the Christian population of Syria is smaller but every bit as old. I just don't know much about their relationship with the Assad regime.

    Syria is less tribal than Libya.. and I don't think you could call any Syrians overlords.

    I don't have any gift for prophecy.. I just try to keep track of the changing details.
    Well.....thats why I didnt say anything about Overlords in Syria. Now as for the MB.....indeed they are not they same. I think they are far more devious than they ever were and are only using Democracy for their own Power Trip.

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    Re: Canada cuts ties with Iran, closes embassy, orders Iranian diplomats home

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well.....thats why I didnt say anything about Overlords in Syria. Now as for the MB.....indeed they are not they same. I think they are far more devious than they ever were and are only using Democracy for their own Power Trip.
    There is no concept of civic participation in Islam.. They didn't have that Greek and Roman experience and long struggle to arrive at a democratic republic.

    The agreement is between those who are ruled and those who rule.. Obedience for service... centered on the mosque.

    The intellectuals get it.. but the majority probably don't.

    There is a very real threat that the Arab spring won't produce more civic participation.. but that elections will result in "president for life" scenarios with winner take all and dominate the rest.

    I think the MB gets it.. and are the most likely to be inclusive and encourage civic participation. Look for cautious reform.. at a snail's pace.

  4. #114
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    Re: Canada cuts ties with Iran, closes embassy, orders Iranian diplomats home

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    There is no concept of civic participation in Islam..
    Bull****. It has nothing to do with Islam. It has everything to do with European colonialism and dictatorships after that. Christian nations that were given their freedom from their colonial masters all experienced the exact same problems as you blame on Islam. Democracy in South America? HA! They went from one dictator backed by the Catholic Church to the next.

    Face it, Islam aint the problem.. religion is as it is at its core... anti-democratic.

    They didn't have that Greek and Roman experience and long struggle to arrive at a democratic republic.
    Has nothing to do with that. The Greek and Roman experience was hardly democratic (especially the Roman) by today's standard, plus all that experience was purged by the Christian Church for many centuries... called the Dark Ages.. Tons of knowledge was destroyed by the Christian Church, but it was saved by... the Islamic nations of the time who were open and free (relatively speaking) and progressive. The Dark Ages was the church asserting its power after the fall of the Roman Empire, through their surrogates in the royal houses of Europe.

    The agreement is between those who are ruled and those who rule.. Obedience for service... centered on the mosque.
    And how is that exactly any different than the Christian church back in the day and even now in some areas of the world? Who is the most powerful man in some areas of the US... the local elected politician or the parish priest?

    There is a very real threat that the Arab spring won't produce more civic participation.. but that elections will result in "president for life" scenarios with winner take all and dominate the rest.
    Again wrong. There will be more civic participation.. the turn out in Egypt and Tunisia was far far far higher than the average US national election. The key to all those countries is to have the institutions in place and untainted and not have another group or person move in to just replace the old regime. They key problem with all these countries.. South American, African, Islamic, and so on.. the lack of or very weak democratic institutions and systems that are easily manipulated. Such systems take time to build... after all they did not pop up out of the blue in western Europe or in the US. They started slowly.. first with minority dictatorships and then slowly over hundreds of years the democratic systems were expanded to what they are today.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Canada cuts ties with Iran, closes embassy, orders Iranian diplomats home

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Bull****. It has nothing to do with Islam. It has everything to do with European colonialism and dictatorships after that. Christian nations that were given their freedom from their colonial masters all experienced the exact same problems as you blame on Islam. Democracy in South America? HA! They went from one dictator backed by the Catholic Church to the next.

    Face it, Islam aint the problem.. religion is as it is at its core... anti-democratic.



    Has nothing to do with that. The Greek and Roman experience was hardly democratic (especially the Roman) by today's standard, plus all that experience was purged by the Christian Church for many centuries... called the Dark Ages.. Tons of knowledge was destroyed by the Christian Church, but it was saved by... the Islamic nations of the time who were open and free (relatively speaking) and progressive. The Dark Ages was the church asserting its power after the fall of the Roman Empire, through their surrogates in the royal houses of Europe.



    And how is that exactly any different than the Christian church back in the day and even now in some areas of the world? Who is the most powerful man in some areas of the US... the local elected politician or the parish priest?



    Again wrong. There will be more civic participation.. the turn out in Egypt and Tunisia was far far far higher than the average US national election. The key to all those countries is to have the institutions in place and untainted and not have another group or person move in to just replace the old regime. They key problem with all these countries.. South American, African, Islamic, and so on.. the lack of or very weak democratic institutions and systems that are easily manipulated. Such systems take time to build... after all they did not pop up out of the blue in western Europe or in the US. They started slowly.. first with minority dictatorships and then slowly over hundreds of years the democratic systems were expanded to what they are today.
    I probably failed to communicate with you.............

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