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Thread: NASDAQ closes at highest level since 2000

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    Re: NASDAQ closes at highest level since 2000

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Ok, well what about the 70% or so that the NASDAQ is up over the past 3 years?
    70% over 3 years is a snails pace and careful investing if you consider how far and fast it fell in the bust

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    Re: NASDAQ closes at highest level since 2000

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    70% over 3 years is a snails pace and careful investing if you consider how far and fast it fell in the bust
    Growth that fast in the stock market has only occurred two other times in the history of the country- under Clinton and under FDR. Obama is presently third of all time for stock market growth.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: NASDAQ closes at highest level since 2000

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Growth that fast in the stock market has only occurred two other times in the history of the country- under Clinton and under FDR. Obama is presently third of all time for stock market growth.
    The market crashed and everything was underpriced, the amazing part is how long it took to come back. I am not blaming obama so relax, I think people were scared to get back in and were not sure if it had hit bottom yet for a long time. People lost their life savings in the crash and you don't forget that, it takes a while to trust the market again.

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    Re: NASDAQ closes at highest level since 2000

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Growth that fast in the stock market has only occurred two other times in the history of the country- under Clinton and under FDR. Obama is presently third of all time for stock market growth.
    It crashed pretty damned hard right after Clinton left office, dont know that I would want to use that example for healthy business growth.

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    Re: NASDAQ closes at highest level since 2000

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Good. 4.5 million new jobs in just the past 27 months.

    You're doing the same thing some of these other guys are- trying to paint an overly simplistic picture. Of course the stock market isn't the only economic indicator that matters. It is one of several important indicators. It is the one that conservative economists fixate on the most. More than liberals. But that doesn't mean it isn't important. It is. To a conservative, this should seem to be great news that the stock market is way up. To a liberal, it is still very good news, although maybe not as great.
    No, I'm not trying to paint an overly simplistic picture. I'm going off of history. The stock market has been the sole focus of government for some time, over the concerns of normal people, jobs, the middle class, etc. Decades now. One of several important indicators. Well give me the other "several" then! Government loves its banks, it will do anything to ensure their prosperity, even give away crap tons of our money when they break the system. I don't care about the banks and the influence they have bought in Congress (OK, maybe I am concerned about that latter part). Middle class is still evaporating, free market capitalism is still dead, the problems still exist. I will jump up and down when you're other "several important indicators" pan out. Till then you just have the rich getting richer and nothing else to show for it. Thanks for the status quo.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: NASDAQ closes at highest level since 2000

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, I'm not trying to paint an overly simplistic picture. I'm going off of history. The stock market has been the sole focus of government for some time, over the concerns of normal people, jobs, the middle class, etc. Decades now.
    That's truish. Or rather, it was true until 3 years ago. Reagan, Bush1, Clinton and Bush2 were all hard core supply side trickle down guys. Their focus was almost exclusively on the stock market. Obama doesn't really fall in line with that. By the end of Bush2's presidency, it was obvious that that approach had failed and today there aren't really many economists at all left still preaching supply side. The Republicans still want to keep going that direction, but the Democrats was to stop and roll back to a more balanced place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    One of several important indicators. Well give me the other "several" then!
    Well, in my view, you have three big buckets that matter- supply, demand and participation. There are lots of indicators of the health of each of them and none is perfect. For supply, you have indicators like credit availability measures, the actual amount of capital going into expanding companies, new companies, production, etc. But, the stock market is the primary indicator of supply.

    For demand there are also lots of indicators. Revenues, median income, exports, etc. But, the strongest indicator is consumer spending. Consumer spending is driven by the middle class, which is driven by median (not average) income.

    For participation there are tons of measures as well. We could have a huge GDP, but it could do us almost no good if just a handful of people were able to take part in it. Measures of the distribution of wealth, people in poverty, etc, are all indicators of participation, but unemployment is the primary indicator at present. That isn't a great measure really. Theoretically, you could have a booming economy where only a small percentage worked and robots did the rest for example, so long as the proceeds were being spread around somehow, and you would have both high unemployment and high participation. Or, you could have low unemployment, but everybody could be working minimum wage jobs, and you would have low unemployment, but low participation. But, nonetheless, in the current climate unemployment is a pretty good indicator of participation.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: NASDAQ closes at highest level since 2000

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Obama doesn't really fall in line with that.
    Are you mad!? Functionally Obama is a Bush clone.

    Middle class growth, real term earning power, social mobility, wealth disparity, etc...these are the true economic markers. You're just making things up now because it's Bush II....I mean Obama. Unemployment isn't a great measure!? It is supposed to be one of the major variables on which we servo the system! The other being inflation.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: NASDAQ closes at highest level since 2000

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Are you mad!? Functionally Obama is a Bush clone.
    That is simply absurd. He has been pushing hard for tax hikes on the rich. That is exactly the opposite of trickle down. He has fought hard for tax cuts for the middle class- again, the opposite of trickle down. He has pushed hard for regulation of the financial sector, consumer protection, increased spending on education and other programs that boost up the middle class... I can't think of a single economic policy he has pushed hard on that didn't boil down to reversing course on supply side economics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Unemployment isn't a great measure!? It is supposed to be one of the major variables on which we servo the system! The other being inflation.
    I explained the issues with it to you. Did you have thoughts on what I said about it?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: NASDAQ closes at highest level since 2000

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    That is simply absurd. He has been pushing hard for tax hikes on the rich. That is exactly the opposite of trickle down. He has fought hard for tax cuts for the middle class- again, the opposite of trickle down. He has pushed hard for regulation of the financial sector, consumer protection, increased spending on education and other programs that boost up the middle class... I can't think of a single economic policy he has pushed hard on that didn't boil down to reversing course on supply side economics.
    Our wars are expanding, GITMO is still open, warrantless searches still going on, government is continually expanding against our liberty. He panders to corporate America as much as any good Republocrat. I mean...what has really changed? Seriously. We got some "debate" on healthcare and came away with a give away to Insurance companies, much as Bush had Medicade Part D.l

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I explained the issues with it to you. Did you have thoughts on what I said about it?
    And I explained the difference. You only cited that which is politically convenient, and not any true measure of economic growth, economic mobility, and freedom. And then you tried to dismiss one of the major economic markers and variable upon which we balance our economy. Ridiculous.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: NASDAQ closes at highest level since 2000

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Our wars are expanding, GITMO is still open, warrantless searches still going on, government is continually expanding against our liberty.
    We're talking about his economic policy, so this stuff isn't relevant, but I wanted to note that the notion that government expansion inherently means less liberty is false. Government can either protect or limit our liberty. With no government there is no liberty just as surely as there is no liberty with an absolutist government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    He panders to corporate America as much as any good Republocrat. I mean...what has really changed? Seriously. We got some "debate" on healthcare and came away with a give away to Insurance companies, much as Bush had Medicade Part D.l
    He certainly panders to corporations much less than Republicans do. For example, look at antitrust just to take an example. Under Bush the antitrust division of the DOJ and the FTC had essentially surrendered the field. No major mergers were stopped. Some simply egregious collusion was permitted in broad daylight. Under Obama it has been a totally different story. Even the ultra-politically connected AT&T could not get it's horrible merger with T-Mobile approved.

    But, where one falls on the supply side to demand side spectrum isn't about how much you pander to corporations anyways. It is about taxation, creating opportunity, etc. The two can intersect, but they aren't the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And I explained the difference. You only cited that which is politically convenient, and not any true measure of economic growth, economic mobility, and freedom. And then you tried to dismiss one of the major economic markers and variable upon which we balance our economy. Ridiculous.
    Again, I explained to you why unemployment is currently the best indicator of participation, but isn't necessarily always going to be. I gave arguments and explanations. If you think they are wrong, explain why.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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