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Massachusetts judge approves taxpayer-funded sex change for inmate

Connery said:
In my experience it has to do with a very cloistered perspective and attitude.
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Actually it is about people everywhere being different.The only truly predictable thing about people is that they are unpredictable. The subject of this thread stems from the question, are we the people of the United States of America responsible for the bill when a murderer wants what amounts to an elective surgery?
 
Douglas_Smith said:
Actually it is about people everywhere being different.The only truly predictable thing about people is that they are unpredictable. The subject of this thread stems from the question, are we the people of the United States of America responsible for the bill when a murderer wants what amounts to an elective surgery?
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I truly believe people are born this way. I also truly believe this person is in prison. Yeah if he gets shanked or gets the flu or something but a sex change?
 
Furiounova said:
If the convict's evidence included medical reasons and was presented in solid form the judge may not have had much of a choice going by the 8th amendment.
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He gave his constitutional rights when he committed murder.
 
I disagree with this ruling because she's in prison for killing her ex-wife and **** her-- but that doesn't really provide an excuse for the kind of bigoted and medically ignorant bull**** that people are spouting about the transgendered.

We, as a morally just society, have an obligation to provide for the medical care of people that we have taken into custody because we are, directly, preventing them from being able to secure their own medical care. But I don't think for one second that such medical care should extend beyond the care they would receive if they had not been convicted felons-- if she needed a new heart or a new knee in order to service her rehabilitation, I would support paying for that, but she should be forced to pay for her own ladyparts.
 
Mya said:
Now everybody who wants this type of surgery, can commit a crime, go to prison and get free treatment.
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For ****s sake :doh:
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
I disagree with this ruling because she's in prison for killing her ex-wife and **** her-- but that doesn't really provide an excuse for the kind of bigoted and medically ignorant bull**** that people are spouting about the transgendered.

We, as a morally just society, have an obligation to provide for the medical care of people that we have taken into custody because we are, directly, preventing them from being able to secure their own medical care. But I don't think for one second that such medical care should extend beyond the care they would receive if they had not been convicted felons-- if she needed a new heart or a new knee in order to service her rehabilitation, I would support paying for that, but she should be forced to pay for her own ladyparts.
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Only quibble i have with this post is the claim that our society is morally just lol. Perhaps that is the ideal we aspire to, but it's an ideal that doesn't exist.
 
Your Star said:
For ****s sake :doh:
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You don't think that forcing the prison system to provide expensive healthcare, that is otherwise inaccessible, presents a very real moral hazard?
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
You don't think that forcing the prison system to provide expensive healthcare, that is otherwise inaccessible, presents a very real moral hazard?
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I was commenting on how it's a stupid assertion that transgender people will commit crimes in order to go to prison to receive medical care.
 
Your Star said:
I was commenting on how it's a stupid assertion that transgender people will commit crimes in order to go to prison to receive medical care.
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No different than saying that they'll commit crimes in order to get the money to do it-- and that's happened before.

It's the most fundamental principle of economics. If a person wants something, they are going to pursue the most effective means of obtaining it-- and if all legitimate means of obtaining that object are closed off, they will turn to illegitimate means.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
No different than saying that they'll commit crimes in order to get the money to do it-- and that's happened before.

It's the most fundamental principle of economics. If a person wants something, they are going to pursue the most effective means of obtaining it-- and if all legitimate means of obtaining that object are closed off, they will turn to illegitimate means.
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And going to prison is not the most effective means of obtaining GCS. It's ridiculous to claim such things, and is in no way logical.
 
clownboy said:
The people of MA seem to be okay with a lot of this sort of nonsense. As long as no federal funds are being used, I say let them spend their money on whatever stupid thing their heart's desire.
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NO, the majority of people in MA are NOT alright with this sort of nonsense. The problem is that the majority of people in this Communistwealth are unwilling to speak up because every time they have, they get told to sit down, shut the hell up, do what they're told and LIKE IT by the consortium of Liberal Socialists who run the Communistwealth. So much so that most people aren't willing to even stand up anymore.
 
Tigger said:
NO, I'm in MA and I'm NOT alright with this sort of nonsense. The problem I am unwilling to speak up because every time I have, I get told to sit down, shut the hell up, do what I'm told and LIKE IT by the consortium of Liberal Socialists who run the Communistwealth. So much so that I'm not willing to even stand up anymore.
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Edited for accuracy.
 
Your Star said:
And going to prison is not the most effective means of obtaining GCS. It's ridiculous to claim such things, and is in no way logical.
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Yeah? And how else are you going to do it, if you can't afford the procedure and don't have the kind of health insurance that would cover it? It's crazy, but people do crazy things when they don't see better options.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
Yeah? And how else are you going to do it, if you can't afford the procedure and don't have the kind of health insurance that would cover it? It's crazy, but people do crazy things when they don't see better options.
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So someone is going to go kill someone because they can't afford GCS? Doesn't make sense, and the prison isn't going to approve that surgery for a petty crime with a short sentence. It just doesn't make sense, and a lot of trans people realize that this cost is big, and save up for it. So yeah, it takes some absurd logic to reach that conclusion.
 
Tigger said:
NO, the majority of people in MA are NOT alright with this sort of nonsense. The problem is that the majority of people in this Communistwealth are unwilling to speak up because every time they have, they get told to sit down, shut the hell up, do what they're told and LIKE IT by the consortium of Liberal Socialists who run the Communistwealth. So much so that most people aren't willing to even stand up anymore.
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Oh please. The hyperbole is absurd.
 
Your Star said:
So someone is going to go kill someone because they can't afford GCS? Doesn't make sense, and the prison isn't going to approve that surgery for a petty crime with a short sentence. It just doesn't make sense, and a lot of trans people realize that this cost is big, and save up for it. So yeah, it takes some absurd logic to reach that conclusion.
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Kill someone? I never said kill someone, though some people might. But how long of a sentence do you think a criminal would need to serve before they'll cover the surgery?
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
Kill someone? I never said kill someone, though some people might. But how long of a sentence do you think a criminal would need to serve before they'll cover the surgery?
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Hell, they wouldn't even necessarily need to commit a crime..they'd just need to confess to having done something illegal. Rapist on the loose? Turn yourself in, claim you did it because of anger and unresolved issues related to whatever ailment you're seeking treatment for and then you're in jail, getting medical care at no cost.
 
Furiounova said:
Oh please. The hyperbole is absurd.
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No, not really. Then again you don't live here, and I'd suggest that you're probably much more in line philosophically with the Liberal Socialists who run this Communistwealth than with a large percentage of the citizens.

When you look at this history of this state in the last decade or so, the number of times the legislature and judiciary have ignored the will of the people to make things up as they've gone along is blatantly obvious. From deciding to allow gay marriage in the Judiciary to having both segments of the government ignore several supposedly binding referrendums on taxation and the like. The government of this state has no interest in the will of the people and hasn't in the decade and a half that I've lived here.
 
spud_meister said:
Just like a schizophrenic is pretending to hear voice. Or a person with Bi-polar is pretending to have mood swings. :roll:
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I got news for you...a lot of them do.
 
spud_meister said:
Then they're not mentally ill. /facepalm
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No ****. Thats the point. A lot of people make convenient claims fo mental illness and manage to quite successfully get on disability. There are a large number of people that have figured out if you claim to hear voices, express you are 'depressed' and say the magic words "Im going to..." as in harm themselves, then they are placed in secure psychiatric facilities for observation. 3 times gets you mainlined into a county Behavioral Health Provider where you have a diagnosis and label slapped on you, undergo a few reviews...and poof...you are placed on disability. Dont like your mom ragging on you to get a life or get out of the apartment? wake up, shower, do your hair, pack a little bag, go to the nearest ER and say "Im hearing voices...I think Im going to go jump off a building".

That IS the point. Not everyone that claims to have disorders ARE disordered.
 
I don't doubt that he has some kind of "disorder" but MA taxpayers should NOT have to pay for this. It is so effing ridiculous.
 
VanceMack said:
No ****. Thats the point. A lot of people make convenient claims fo mental illness and manage to quite successfully get on disability. There are a large number of people that have figured out if you claim to hear voices, express you are 'depressed' and say the magic words "Im going to..." as in harm themselves, then they are placed in secure psychiatric facilities for observation. 3 times gets you mainlined into a county Behavioral Health Provider where you have a diagnosis and label slapped on you, undergo a few reviews...and poof...you are placed on disability. Dont like your mom ragging on you to get a life or get out of the apartment? wake up, shower, do your hair, pack a little bag, go to the nearest ER and say "Im hearing voices...I think Im going to go jump off a building".

That IS the point. Not everyone that claims to have disorders ARE disordered.
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But don't they have to have some type of mental disorder to fake a mental disorder?
 
VanceMack said:
That IS the point. Not everyone that claims to have disorders ARE disordered.
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Right, and so you're saying a guy in a prison decided he wanted his dick cut off because he didn't want to live with his mum?
 
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