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Thread: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 presidential

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    There is only one way to know that only citizens are voting and that is with voter ID. A free and fair vote is the foundation this country sits on and just like a house is only going to last as long as it's foundation is sound this country is only going to last as long as it's foundation is sound. It is imperative that we insure only citizens vote no matter what the cost.
    If you think that voter ID is the answer to preserving freedom, democracy and the sound American foundation, I have a bridge to sell you. For instance, do you realize how easy it is to hack a voting machine? LOL
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    There is only one way to know that only citizens are voting and that is with voter ID. A free and fair vote is the foundation this country sits on and just like a house is only going to last as long as it's foundation is sound this country is only going to last as long as it's foundation is sound. It is imperative that we insure only citizens vote no matter what the cost.
    You didn't read the OP, here I'll repost the part you missed.

    TALLAHASSEE: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 presidential election - Florida - MiamiHerald.com

    According to court records, Sever’s illegal voting was discovered during Gov. Rick Scott’s controversial push to identify potential non-citizens on voting rolls using information from the state motor vehicle agency. Though the Department of State amassed a list of 180,000 potential non-citizens registered to vote, it only sent one name —Sever’s — to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to investigate criminally.

    FDLE says it is currently investigating six total cases of voter fraud in a state of more than 11 million voters. Lawmakers, citing a widespread voter fraud problem, passed several measures to change voting processes last year. Critics bashed the changes — including a crackdown on voter registration drives and shortened early voting — as “voter suppression” and federal judges have blocked many of them.


    The Justice Department has feuded with Scott over his voter purge, challenging the action in the courts. The Justice Department argued that the purge was taking place too close to the actual election, violating the Voter Registration Act. A judge threw out the challenge after Scott’s administration said it would not be using the list to purge voters.

    A purge list of 2,600 names did find some non-citizens who were registered to vote, but many of those suspected were actually U.S. citizens.
    So you got one man who admitted to voter fraud, and 6 who are investigated for it. Sounds to me like a "way to know only citizens are voting." And lets not forget that this purge is taking place right before the election, so someone who is mistakenly purged may not be able to register in time to vote.

    So the question to you is, if you want to ensure only citizens vote no matter the cost, is the cost of making some perfectly legitimate citizens unable to vote worth making sure that not a single non-citizen votes? Sounds to me like your cure is worse than the disease. Your solution is worse than the problem.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    You didn't read the OP, here I'll repost the part you missed.

    TALLAHASSEE: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 presidential election - Florida - MiamiHerald.com



    So you got one man who admitted to voter fraud, and 6 who are investigated for it. Sounds to me like a "way to know only citizens are voting." And lets not forget that this purge is taking place right before the election, so someone who is mistakenly purged may not be able to register in time to vote.

    So the question to you is, if you want to ensure only citizens vote no matter the cost, is the cost of making some perfectly legitimate citizens unable to vote worth making sure that not a single non-citizen votes? Sounds to me like your cure is worse than the disease. Your solution is worse than the problem.
    Let alone the cost to the taxpayers of implementing this program.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I have absolutely no problem presenting my D/L to cash checks, open bank accounts, fly on a commercial airliner, enter my municipal swimming pool or golf course, withdraw money or any of the myriad ways my D/L allows me access.

    So it stands to reason I would have no problem at all presenting a photo i.d. to vote. If people don't have D/L's, they should be provided state i.d.'s for free. I did not have to present my birth certificate to get my D/L. Nor to register to vote. My mom didn't have to present her birth certificate to get a state i.d.

    It's not difficult. It's not unreasonable. And, frankly? If one isn't smart enough to get a photo i.d.? They probably shouldn't be voting anyway. And, guess what? They probably don't.
    All nice, but entering your swimming pool is not a constitutional right. Moreover, there is a real reason for you to show ID to go you to pool, golf course or library, with the reason likely related to validating you as a taxpayer entitled to the preferred rate. Though I think the whole notion of showing ID to get on an airplane is silliness, it exists as a solution to a known and serious problem.

    But, with voting, there is no problem. It is shocking to me that so many people have bought this bill of goods hook, line and sinker without any real evidence the problem exists in the first place. This is just voter suppression designed to help one political party as everyone knows is severely impacts the other party.

    I also don't buy this argument that "if I can do it, anyone can/should do it". This is just narrow ego-centric thinking. You are but a data point of one, not representative of all members of each socio-economic group. There are lots of people that do not have (have zero reason to have) a picture ID.... they do not drive or fly or have any other reason ever to get driver's license. Curiously, they generally live in the city and may not participate in our economy the same way you or I do. They are often poor, elderly, minorities or disabled. They are often the people that are least able to go downtown to get the required ID, yet their right to vote is not less or greater than your or mine. This group also tends to vote democrat.

    A real republican would loathe this as it is 1) unnecessary regulation (a solution for which there is no known problem) and 2) it is restriction fundamental Constitutional rights. Instead, they embrace it because they know it is targeted voter suppression and they are fundamentally hypocrites.

    Sorry, but the idea of depriving someone of their Constitutional rights is appalling to me. It is shocking to me that so many people have bought the goods on this issue. What is voter fraud is the systemic repression of the citizen's right to vote just because they might not vote your way.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    You didn't read the OP, here I'll repost the part you missed.

    TALLAHASSEE: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 presidential election - Florida - MiamiHerald.com


    So you got one man who admitted to voter fraud, and 6 who are investigated for it. Sounds to me like a "way to know only citizens are voting." And lets not forget that this purge is taking place right before the election, so someone who is mistakenly purged may not be able to register in time to vote.

    So the question to you is, if you want to ensure only citizens vote no matter the cost, is the cost of making some perfectly legitimate citizens unable to vote worth making sure that not a single non-citizen votes? Sounds to me like your cure is worse than the disease. Your solution is worse than the problem.

    I don't know how I can make it more simple for you. There is only one way to insure that only US citizens vote and that is with voter ID. This solves any voter fraud issues and everyone can rest assured in the final outcome of an election.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    All nice, but entering your swimming pool is not a constitutional right. Moreover, there is a real reason for you to show ID to go you to pool, golf course or library, with the reason likely related to validating you as a taxpayer entitled to the preferred rate. Though I think the whole notion of showing ID to get on an airplane is silliness, it exists as a solution to a known and serious problem.

    But, with voting, there is no problem. It is shocking to me that so many people have bought this bill of goods hook, line and sinker without any real evidence the problem exists in the first place. This is just voter suppression designed to help one political party as everyone knows is severely impacts the other party.

    I also don't buy this argument that "if I can do it, anyone can/should do it". This is just narrow ego-centric thinking. You are but a data point of one, not representative of all members of each socio-economic group. There are lots of people that do not have (have zero reason to have) a picture ID.... they do not drive or fly or have any other reason ever to get driver's license. Curiously, they generally live in the city and may not participate in our economy the same way you or I do. They are often poor, elderly, minorities or disabled. They are often the people that are least able to go downtown to get the required ID, yet their right to vote is not less or greater than your or mine. This group also tends to vote democrat.

    A real republican would loathe this as it is 1) unnecessary regulation (a solution for which there is no known problem) and 2) it is restriction fundamental Constitutional rights. Instead, they embrace it because they know it is targeted voter suppression and they are fundamentally hypocrites.

    Sorry, but the idea of depriving someone of their Constitutional rights is appalling to me. It is shocking to me that so many people have bought the goods on this issue. What is voter fraud is the systemic repression of the citizen's right to vote just because they might not vote your way.
    I'm sorry to have to be the one to break this to you, but voting is not a constitutional right.

  7. #47
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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    All nice, but entering your swimming pool is not a constitutional right. Moreover, there is a real reason for you to show ID to go you to pool, golf course or library, with the reason likely related to validating you as a taxpayer entitled to the preferred rate. Though I think the whole notion of showing ID to get on an airplane is silliness, it exists as a solution to a known and serious problem.

    But, with voting, there is no problem. It is shocking to me that so many people have bought this bill of goods hook, line and sinker without any real evidence the problem exists in the first place. This is just voter suppression designed to help one political party as everyone knows is severely impacts the other party.

    I also don't buy this argument that "if I can do it, anyone can/should do it". This is just narrow ego-centric thinking. You are but a data point of one, not representative of all members of each socio-economic group. There are lots of people that do not have (have zero reason to have) a picture ID.... they do not drive or fly or have any other reason ever to get driver's license. Curiously, they generally live in the city and may not participate in our economy the same way you or I do. They are often poor, elderly, minorities or disabled. They are often the people that are least able to go downtown to get the required ID, yet their right to vote is not less or greater than your or mine. This group also tends to vote democrat.

    A real republican would loathe this as it is 1) unnecessary regulation (a solution for which there is no known problem) and 2) it is restriction fundamental Constitutional rights. Instead, they embrace it because they know it is targeted voter suppression and they are fundamentally hypocrites.

    Sorry, but the idea of depriving someone of their Constitutional rights is appalling to me. It is shocking to me that so many people have bought the goods on this issue. What is voter fraud is the systemic repression of the citizen's right to vote just because they might not vote your way.
    You are easily appalled. On the other hand, I am appalled that someone can simply walk into a polling place, introduce themselves as John Smith and exercise the most important right our country offers. Those poor people you talk about? How do you think they get on entitlement programs? Just show up and say, "Hi, I'm John Doe. When can you start sending my checks?"

    And if you are naive enough (which no one is) to believe that there is no voter fraud going on whereby people vote in the names of other people? I don't know what to say. If there is a way to cheat, people will cheat. Our politicians have proven time and again they cannot be trusted. Over and over again! To think that our Democratic politicians so radically oppose something as simple as a voter i.d. just proves they cannot be trusted. Again.
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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I don't know how I can make it more simple for you. There is only one way to insure that only US citizens vote and that is with voter ID. This solves any voter fraud issues and everyone can rest assured in the final outcome of an election.
    Does it solve vote fraud issues? I wasn't aware that any kind of system, especially a government one, could act so efficiently. I wasn't aware that mistakenly labeling 2,600 citizens as ineligible voters was solving voter fraud or that its worth the price of removing 1, perhaps 6, truly ineligible voters. That's efficiency? I also wasn't aware there were no issues with government IDs.

    And you didn't answer my question, is it an acceptable solution to catch a handful of ineligible voters by throwing out possibly thousands of eligible ones? Because that's exactly whats happening in Florida apparently.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    People can buy smokes, porn and booze without the need for ID. And yes, they literally have no situations in their lives that require the use of PHOTO ID. (not sure why you omitted the word photo since that is the crux of the matter)
    Not legally, in any state now. At least with the smokes and the booze.

    And the Brennan Center is full of ****e. It's not difficult or expensive to get a copy of your birth cert. And as has been mentioned, listing students and the disabled as likely to not have it, nonsense. Both require regular interactions with government that require photo ID. The elderly and the poor have no excuse. Don't know of a single state that does not have programs to help those folks get a state photo ID.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    I'm sorry to have to be the one to break this to you, but voting is not a constitutional right.
    Really?
    Why did scotus stop counting votes in Florida in 2000?


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