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Thread: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 presidential

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Mason-

    My bad, now please address the state laws I posted about cops, IDs, and when they can require you produce them.
    I can't address individual laws from different staers.

    I am not sure what your point is. If a police officer has contact with you, he is going to ask you to identify yourself. I would think most would ask for proof of identity, mainly because they deal with the worst the country has to offer and they usually lie.

    State law or not, the officer is going to request ID, however your point was that if the feds issued id, then the country would turn into a police state even more than it is now.

    Please explain why.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

    You dodged the law. it is simple, there is no requirement for a Citizen to show ID- name and address only.

    You need to look at the law, not what cops attempt to get away with in a routine traffic stop, they ask for a license because you need one to legally drive.

    So yes If I am walking in the Mall, as if I ever would but lets say I am. IF I am wandering in the Mall doing nothing in particular law enforcement can't just walk up and demand an ID. They may TRY that but I am not required to produce an ID. Yes I maybe lying, but without probable cause to warrant having my name the police never should have asked for it.

    THAT is the difference between a Police State and our nation at the moment.

    But do fact check your own state and the 'requirement' to produce a picture ID.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    How many of that 15% are eligible to vote?
    Or will vote.
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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    A solution in search of a problem, but a great way to disenfranchise the poor and minorities. Which, of course, is the point. Republicans don't even pretend otherwise.
    Tired old talking point. In every case that I have heard about ID laws being voted into law the states have provided a way to get that ID free. Can't exactly use this reasoning when you don't need a single penny to get that ID huh?
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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    Who knows why they filled out a voter registration form. Perhaps when they were getting their photo ID the form was in a pile of paper work and not knowing any better, they just filled out everything that was put in front of them.

    Being registered and actually voting are two separate, independent actions.
    What "pile of paperwork"? When I went to get my license the only thing I had to fill out was the test to get the license and the form saying that I agree to have insurance on my car.

    Besides, ignorance is not an excuse that is allowed in a court of law.

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    I don't know the expense, but easily is the key, if someone's purpose is to commit fraud under penalty of the law.
    Last I heard a fake ID cost $300.

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    The National Voter Registration Act of 1993 (NVRA) (42 U.S.C. § 1973gg), also known as The Motor Voter Act, was signed into effect by United States President Bill Clinton on May 20, 1993, however, compliance did not become mandatory until 1995. The legislation required state governments to allow for registration when a qualifying voter applied for or renewed their driver's license or applied for social services.
    And what you fail to mention is that the States can establish procedures to register so long as they comply with the law. The voter registration must be available with the license due to the Motor Voter Act yes, and it is. However that does not mean that they have to give it to you unless you ask for it. Just a little loophole that you should know about before continueing this line of discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    Implied? He pretty much said what I said - it is so small that it's statistically nil.
    There is a difference between what he said and what you said. But I won't argue that inane point. And the only reason that it is "statistically nil" is for a couple of reasons. One is that it is damn near impossible to catch a person commiting voter fraud unless it is done by someone counting the votes or is part of the staff. Two, no one has really studied it to PUT statistics to it.

    And the most important reason that those against these laws love to do is that they ONLY look at convictions and refuse to use common sense. Probably because they know damn well that its damn near impossible to catch someone stuffing the ballot boxes.
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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It makes sense, in your opinion, to prevent thousands of legitimate voters from casting ballots, in order to catch, in all probability, ZERO illegitimate voters? Could you explain your logic?
    Kinda like gun control. eh?
    Last edited by apdst; 09-05-12 at 09:48 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

    Yet another reason for voter ID laws.

    "Raleigh-based group devoted to reducing the potential for voter fraud presented the N.C. Board of Elections on Friday with a list of nearly 30,000 names of dead people statewide who are still registered to vote."

    The Voter Integrity Project compiled the list after obtaining death records from the state Department of Public Health from 2002 to March 31 and comparing them to the voter rolls.



    NC group finds thousands of deceased people still registered to vote | NBC17.com

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Yet another reason for voter ID laws.

    "Raleigh-based group devoted to reducing the potential for voter fraud presented the N.C. Board of Elections on Friday with a list of nearly 30,000 names of dead people statewide who are still registered to vote."

    The Voter Integrity Project compiled the list after obtaining death records from the state Department of Public Health from 2002 to March 31 and comparing them to the voter rolls.



    NC group finds thousands of deceased people still registered to vote | NBC17.com
    Inane dismissal in 3...2...1...
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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Yet another reason for voter ID laws.

    "Raleigh-based group devoted to reducing the potential for voter fraud presented the N.C. Board of Elections on Friday with a list of nearly 30,000 names of dead people statewide who are still registered to vote."

    The Voter Integrity Project compiled the list after obtaining death records from the state Department of Public Health from 2002 to March 31 and comparing them to the voter rolls.



    NC group finds thousands of deceased people still registered to vote | NBC17.com

    Which part of the voter ID law would require the agencies to work together to verify the lists? Or assuming they are required to, why don't they address that problem? Because it seems to me that voter ID laws wouldn't fix ineffective intra-governmental communication.

    Ever hear of fake ID?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in ‘08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    What "pile of paperwork"? When I went to get my license the only thing I had to fill out was the test to get the license and the form saying that I agree to have insurance on my car.
    So, are you saying that if it doesn't happen to you it doesn't happen?

    Besides, we're talking about non-citizens, so unless you're a non-citizen, their situation would be a little different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    Besides, ignorance is not an excuse that is allowed in a court of law.
    We're in a court of law now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    Last I heard a fake ID cost $300.
    Is $300 the financial limit if someone was determined to circumvent the law?

    How about a group discount? LOL!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    And what you fail to mention is that the States can establish procedures to register so long as they comply with the law. The voter registration must be available with the license due to the Motor Voter Act yes, and it is. However that does not mean that they have to give it to you unless you ask for it. Just a little loophole that you should know about before continueing this line of discussion.
    Is there an incentive in there somewhere to not give out voter registration cards when you apply for or renew your license? They're post card sized and in a box by the thousands at the clerk's fingertips. It would be more plausible to just give one out to everyone (they can always say "I don't need one thanks") rather than try and circumvent the law using a 'loophole' for no reason whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    There is a difference between what he said and what you said. But I won't argue that inane point. And the only reason that it is "statistically nil" is for a couple of reasons. One is that it is damn near impossible to catch a person commiting voter fraud unless it is done by someone counting the votes or is part of the staff.
    How do you figure that it's "damn near impossible to catch a person commiting voter fraud"? Haven't various states produced voter registration lists with dead people and/or non-citizens on them? If they have those people identified from the voter registration rolls, that means they have their names, addresses and voter precincts identified. The next step should be obvious and rather simple. Check the actual voter roster at the poll against the list they have already compiled.

    They haven't taken that next step - or they have and didn't find anything, so they charge on ahead anyway, the heck with the facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    Two, no one has really studied it to PUT statistics to it.
    With the deep pockets of the Koch brothers, and the desire to quash liberals I guarantee that it's been studied and if they had of found something it would've been plastered everywhere

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    And the most important reason that those against these laws love to do is that they ONLY look at convictions and refuse to use common sense.
    And the most important reason that voter obstructionist love to use ONLY allegations is that's all they have and refuse the reality that there's nothing there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang
    Probably because they know damn well that its damn near impossible to catch someone stuffing the ballot boxes.
    Or there is no one stuffing the ballot box.

    And further, if it's impossible to catch someone now, how will one know that photo voter ID has or hasn't worked? Or that there has been voter fraud using a fake photo ID?
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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