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Thread: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 presidential

  1. #101
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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I have absolutely no problem presenting my D/L to cash checks, open bank accounts, fly on a commercial airliner, enter my municipal swimming pool or golf course, withdraw money or any of the myriad ways my D/L allows me access.

    So it stands to reason I would have no problem at all presenting a photo i.d. to vote. If people don't have D/L's, they should be provided state i.d.'s for free. I did not have to present my birth certificate to get my D/L. Nor to register to vote. My mom didn't have to present her birth certificate to get a state i.d.

    It's not difficult. It's not unreasonable. And, frankly? If one isn't smart enough to get a photo i.d.? They probably shouldn't be voting anyway. And, guess what? They probably don't.
    Driver's License/State ID Card

    So which form from Column B did you or your mother present to get the ID or DL in Illinois? Because for the first time applicant, you wouldn't have a prior photo ID to present.

    I can tell you, being a recent transplant to another state, getting a new DL was horribly time consuming. And good thing I own my own car, because without it, I would have had an impossible time. This state would not accept my former states ID because the name didn't match precisely (used middle initial instead of full middle name)to my birth certificate. And my birth certificate, ofcourse had my maiden name on it, so that was another issue. Had to reapply for a Social Security card (because that too had my initial instead of full name) and a few other hoops to dance through in order to get a photo ID here.

    In the end, it cost me almost 3 weeks of running around, phone calls and mailing. Can't say how many miles I put on my car because I now live in a very rural area and nothing is close by. (and public transportation does not exist here)

    So, yeah, can see how these laws can greatly affect lots of people in a very negative way. How many would just give up their right to vote?

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    My point is unbelievably simple, and yet it still managed to go right over your head... Your argument is that there is almost no significant voter fraud, based on the small number of people who have been charged and convicted of doing so... This time instead of creating an example that might confuses you again, I will get right to the point:

    Just because few people are getting caught, arrested and prosecuted for voter fraud, and crimes related to voter fraud, doesn't mean it isn't happening or the potential for it happening isn't there.

    Here are a few examples:

    Milwaukee
    Minnesota
    Philly
    Detroit
    Washington
    Nebraska
    Wisconsin
    Houston
    Florida
    New York
    Alabama
    More...
    Does it mean it is happening either, and "might be" happening isn't good enough for me to support laws which may make thousands of people unable to vote when they otherwise legally could/

    And if you're going to post stories about voter fraud to support these new photo ID laws, make sure at least that the stories involve fraud that could be potentially be stopped by photo ID laws. Some of your stories do, bust many don't.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by EyesWideOpen View Post
    Driver's License/State ID Card

    So which form from Column B did you or your mother present to get the ID or DL in Illinois? Because for the first time applicant, you wouldn't have a prior photo ID to present.

    I can tell you, being a recent transplant to another state, getting a new DL was horribly time consuming. And good thing I own my own car, because without it, I would have had an impossible time. This state would not accept my former states ID because the name didn't match precisely (used middle initial instead of full middle name)to my birth certificate. And my birth certificate, ofcourse had my maiden name on it, so that was another issue. Had to reapply for a Social Security card (because that too had my initial instead of full name) and a few other hoops to dance through in order to get a photo ID here.

    In the end, it cost me almost 3 weeks of running around, phone calls and mailing. Can't say how many miles I put on my car because I now live in a very rural area and nothing is close by. (and public transportation does not exist here)

    So, yeah, can see how these laws can greatly affect lots of people in a very negative way. How many would just give up their right to vote?
    I don't get it. First of all, requirements to get a D/L aren't what's at issue here. Here's what's needed for an Illinois State I.D. :

    • Proof of residence.
    • Proof of your social security number (SSN). If you have never been issued a SSN, you may be required to obtain one, or, if ineligible, provide a letter with a Social Security Administration letterhead dated at least 90 days prior to the application.
    • Proof of date of birth.
    • Proof of written signature.
    Proof of residence can be an electrical bill made out in your name.
    Everyone should have a Social Security Card.
    Proof of date of birth. A birth certificate. What's so hard about that?
    Proof of written signature. That could be a canceled check with your signature on it.

    And, of course, if you have a D/L, you needn't do any of the above. We aren't talking about D/L's -- we're talking about State I.D.'s.
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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Does it mean it is happening either, and "might be" happening isn't good enough for me to support laws which may make thousands of people unable to vote when they otherwise legally could
    Voter ID's don't prevent people from voting... Laziness does.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Voter ID's don't prevent people from voting... Laziness does.
    So this is what the debate has come to...
    Men do what they have to when they want to, Great men do what they have to, even when they don't want to.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    You leftist seem very concerned that feeble minded old people, drunks and drug addicts, mentally disabled and welfare recipients might not vote if voter ID is implemented. It shows who you think these people will vote for and that speaks volumes.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by Fruityfact View Post
    So this is what the debate has come to...
    As I've already shown, it is not discriminatory to the poor or minorities:

    Are the poor given free ID's if they can't afford them?

    The answer is yes. In the Supreme Court decision in the Crawford v. Marion County Election Board case, Justice Stevens wrote in the majority opinion that:


    "The relevant burdens here are those imposed on eligible voters who lack photo identification cards that comply with SEA 483. Because Indiana’s cards are free, the inconvenience of going to the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, gathering required documents, and posing for a photograph does not qualify as a substantial burden on most voters’ right to vote, or represent a significant increase over the usual burdens of voting."



    That makes it quite clear that if states are going to require ID cards to vote, they must offer them free of charge so that those who can't afford them are not disenfranchised.

    How does requiring an ID pose more of a burden to minority voters, than it does to majority voters?

    The answer is, it doesn't. All citizens regardless of race, are issued the same legal birth certificates, the same citizenship papers, have access to the same government facilities and modes of public transportation, are charged the same amount of money for a legal ID if they can afford one, and both are offered one free if they can not.

    Have you a better explaination than laziness?
    Last edited by Grim17; 09-01-12 at 08:59 PM.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by EyesWideOpen View Post
    So, yeah, can see how these laws can greatly affect lots of people in a very negative way. How many would just give up their right to vote?
    Voting is not a right, it's a privilege.

    Your post did make one thing clear however... That not voting because you don't have an ID is a persons choice. They either feel like it's worth their time, or they don't. Either way, ID's aren't to blame... They are.

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Those pushing for these ID laws know full well that the elderly, the poor and the students will most likely not vote because of it. That is the sole reason. It has absolutely ZERO to do with voter fraud because voter fraud is about as common as a pig flying.
    Can I ask why not? If they're willing to go out and vote, what stops them from being able to get a voter I.D.?

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    Re: Canadian man living in Broward pleads guilty to voting illegally in 08 president

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    You leftist seem very concerned that feeble minded old people, drunks and drug addicts, mentally disabled and welfare recipients might not vote if voter ID is implemented. It shows who you think these people will vote for and that speaks volumes.
    These people have righs, too. Sorry that you don't like who they might vote for.

    I think at least half of them would probably vote Republican like everyone else. Prove they won't.

    I think it speaks volumes about the right that you don't care about these people's rights, and that you assume that because you deem them undesirable, they'l vot Democrat.
    Last edited by rocket88; 09-01-12 at 10:23 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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