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Police: Gunman kills two at N.J. supermarket

Das Sozialist said:

The United States has less homicides (with firearms) than:

  • Colombia
  • El Salvador
  • Jamaica
  • Honduras
  • Guatemala
  • Swaziland
  • South Africa
  • Panama
  • Brazil
  • Mexico
  • Philippines
  • Estonia
  • Paraguay
  • Nicaragua
  • Northern Ireland
  • Zimbabwe

And the majority of mass murder takes place in the middle-east, not the United States.
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My post said nothing about homicide rates.

I also said nothing about mass murder. Maybe it would help if you read what is actually posted? Responding to claims I've not made is a waste of time.
 
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Goshin said:
BS. Norway shooter. Britain has a had a couple too. Nor is it unknown in other countries... google "phillipines" and "amok".
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Didn't say it never happens in other countries.
 
Harshaw said:
Oh, so, when you remove the things you like in order to get the result you want.



Distraction. Has nothing to do with anything I said. But when you make stuff up to talk about what you want rather than what is, I guess that's what you have to do.
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Would you really count robberies in what I'm talking about here? Obviously not.
 
Furiounova said:
Would you really count robberies in what I'm talking about here? Obviously not.
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Why wouldn't you, if you want to tie all gun violence into an "epidemic"?
 
Furiounova said:
My post said nothing about homicide rates.

I also said nothing about mass murder. Maybe it would help if you read what is actually posted? Responding to claims I've not made is a waste of time.
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You are correct, I apologize.

But claiming shooting statistics increase when you remove almost every major factor is fallacious.

Shooting statistics show the increase when you remove the count for robberies, traditional murder, and of course there is that tool of observation that does not rely solely on the media for information.
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Goshin said:
You said it was a UNIQUELY American problem.... which is very little different.
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Uniquely American in both frequency and style.

The Norway shooting doesnt count because that was not social terrorism.
 
Harshaw said:
Why wouldn't you, if you want to tie all gun violence into an "epidemic"?
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Never said all gun violence is an epidemic. There are places in the world where they have a lot more gun violence than the US.
 
Das Sozialist said:
You are correct, I apologize.

But claiming shooting statistics increase when you remove almost every major factor is fallacious.
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I'm not talking about simply shooting statistics.
 
Furiounova said:
Never said all gun violence is an epidemic. There are places in the world where they have a lot more gun violence than the US.
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Then why don't you come out and say 1) what the "common elements" of this "epidemic" are and 2) what you propose to do to "address" it?

Or, if you have already done so, point me to it.
 
There are no solutions that can be proposed in terms of legislation that has a snowballs chance of passage. Unless these events begin to happy on a weekly basis and get a whole lot worse, that will not change for the foreseeable future.
 
beerftw said:
dang i was just about to post that too why did you have to beat me to it:soap

Urban Dictionary: Social Terrorism
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Im pretty sure he means the kind of social terrorism where people commit random acts of violence on society...like...the daily gang shootings, drive bys, etc. They have had two just down the street from Obamas house in Chicago this last week alone. Of course...that 'community'...he did build that...
 
Harshaw said:
Then why don't you come out and say 1) what the "common elements" of this "epidemic" are and 2) what you propose to do to "address" it?

Or, if you have already done so, point me to it.
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No deep personal connection to the victims.

No political, religious, or ideological agenda being pushed.

Typically commit suicide to end it.

Very public locations.

Attackers tend to blend in with society and are usually Caucasian males under 40.

How to address it? Not sure where to begin which is why I'm looking for the most accurate description and social terrorism is what I have at the moment. There are two main reasons for the term:

1. Highlighting the absence of any agenda.
2. It is fallout from a failing society.

These attackers are symptoms of how our celebrated individualism has created a culture of isolation instead of integration. Without a doubt one avenue of exploration is to ask why they see death and murder as a great tool for conflict resolution.

I would like to see the stats on these types of shootings between 1991-2000 and compare them to the period of 2001-present. I bet we will see an increase in the latter period.
 
VanceMack said:
Im pretty sure he means the kind of social terrorism where people commit random acts of violence on society...like...the daily gang shootings, drive bys, etc. They have had two just down the street from Obamas house in Chicago this last week alone. Of course...that 'community'...he did build that...
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Gang shootings are not social terrorism since they are clearly motivated by turf wars.
 
haymarket said:
There are no solutions that can be proposed in terms of legislation that has a snowballs chance of passage. Unless these events begin to happy on a weekly basis and get a whole lot worse, that will not change for the foreseeable future.
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Legislation is the last place to look and if anything, needs to be repealed on many levels because one more gun law and I will puke on a daily basis.
 
Furiounova said:
Gang shootings are not social terrorism since they are clearly motivated by turf wars.
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Wait...did you actually just write that???

So...random acts of violence conducted to cause fear and initiate control dont count as an act of terror.

Methinks thou dost ignore daily incidents out of political correctness...too much.
 
Furiounova said:
No deep personal connection to the victims.

No political, religious, or ideological agenda being pushed.

Typically commit suicide to end it.

Very public locations.

Attackers tend to blend in with society and are usually Caucasian males under 40.
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Nothing here speaks to anything you CAN address, which is a point I was trying to make some pages back.



These attackers are symptoms of how our celebrated individualism has created a culture of isolation instead of integration.
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OK, that's just plain nuts. There is not one shred of evidence to suggest this, not an iota, and and it runs counter to the vast majority of US history, where individualism was given much more respect than it is now.


Without a doubt one avenue of exploration is to ask why they see death and murder as a great tool for conflict resolution.
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You've already drawn a ridiculous conclusion on that score.


I would like to see the stats on these types of shootings between 1991-2000 and compare them to the period of 2001-present. I bet we will see an increase in the latter period.
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Mostly took a powder from 1999 to 2007:

A history of mass shootings in the US since Columbine - Telegraph

And, of course, there's no motivational pattern between them.

I'm sure you'll find one of you really, really want there to be one, though.

Of course, WaPo looks at a much longer period and concludes there's no rhyme or reason to it.

Colorado shootings add chapter to long, unpredictable story of U.S. mass murder - The Washington Post

The statistics on mass murder suggest it is a phenomenon that does not track with other types of violent crime, such as street violence. It does not seem to be affected by the economy or by law enforcement strategies. The mass murderer has become almost a stock figure in American culture, someone bent on overkill — and, so often, seemingly coming out of nowhere.

The United States experienced 645 mass-murder events — killings with at least four victims — between 1976 and 2010, according to Northeastern University criminologist James Alan Fox. When graphed, these incidents show no obvious trend. The numbers go up and down and up again. The total body count: 2,949.
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Furiounova said:
Gang shootings are not social terrorism since they are clearly motivated by turf wars.
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Sometimes, they just want to beat em down baby. Gotta represent.



Face it. Your OP is flawed. There is destruction and violence every day in this country. The only time you pay attention is when it is perpetrated by a white guy.
 
VanceMack said:
Sometimes, they just want to beat em down baby. Gotta represent.



Face it. Your OP is flawed. There is destruction and violence every day in this country. The only time you pay attention is when it is perpetrated by a white guy.
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Lol.....the shooter in the OP is not white....once again someone criticizing my position without knowing basic facts. Forgive me if I dont take it seriously.
 
VanceMack said:
Wait...did you actually just write that???

So...random acts of violence conducted to cause fear and initiate control dont count as an act of terror.

Methinks thou dost ignore daily incidents out of political correctness...too much.
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Gang shootings are not random acts of violence. It is organized crime.
 
Harshaw said:
Nothing here speaks to anything you CAN address, which is a point I was trying to make some pages back.





OK, that's just plain nuts. There is not one shred of evidence to suggest this, not an iota, and and it runs counter to the vast majority of US history, where individualism was given much more respect than it is now.




You've already drawn a ridiculous conclusion on that score.




Mostly took a powder from 1999 to 2007:

A history of mass shootings in the US since Columbine - Telegraph

And, of course, there's no motivational pattern between them.

I'm sure you'll find one of you really, really want there to be one, though.

Of course, WaPo looks at a much longer period and concludes there's no rhyme or reason to it.

Colorado shootings add chapter to long, unpredictable story of U.S. mass murder - The Washington Post
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For the 45th time, I'm not talking about mass murder.
You can say my hypothesis is nuts but when you do nothing to show why it only shows you cannot present a counter argument or theory.

I'm not saying I have the answers. I'm saying we should start looking for them.
 
Furiounova said:
For the 45th time, I'm not talking about mass murder.
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Did you even read the stories at the links? I doubt very much you did. Those are about mass shootings. If you're not talking about that, then you're making absolutely no sense in the slightest.

Of course, that's the same thing anyway, but what exactly do you THINK you're talking about that's different from what I posted? This seems like a tremendous dodge, for reasons which are unclear.


You can say my hypothesis is nuts but when you do nothing to show why
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I already told you that it runs counter to the American experience, where this didn't happen when "individualism" was revered far more than it is now. If your "theory" were correct, that wouldn't have been the case. That's empirical.


it only shows you cannot present a counter argument or theory.
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I wouldn't have to. You have to show yours is correct, and you present absolutely no support for it whatsoever.


I'm not saying I have the answers. I'm saying we should start looking for them.
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Oh, I think you think you do. So don't be coy -- what are they?
 
Furiounova said:
Lol.....the shooter in the OP is not white....once again someone criticizing my position without knowing basic facts. Forgive me if I dont take it seriously.
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The basic facts are that violent acts occur daily. Its nothing new. OK...the OP shooter was not 'white'...its still only rlevant because it is a 'story' and not every day victims occurring in major cities across the country...
 
Furiounova said:
Gang shootings are not random acts of violence. It is organized crime.
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Some arent...many are. And their intent is no less planned than any terrorists actions. So...why arent you interested in the daily incidents of gang violence? Why do you so easily discount them and only focus on the 'newsworthy' events?
 
VanceMack said:
Some arent...many are. And their intent is no less planned than any terrorists actions. So...why arent you interested in the daily incidents of gang violence? Why do you so easily discount them and only focus on the 'newsworthy' events?
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I really don't have the patience to waste time on people ascribing some ulterior motive so your snipe hunt may continue but it will be lonely.
 
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