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Thread: NYT: Majority Of New Jobs Pay Low Wages, Study Says

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    Re: NYT: Majority Of New Jobs Pay Low Wages, Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Unions are in decline precisely because there is not a good argument for their existence.
    we live in a labor reality of no job security, low pay, decreasing benefits, and the cost of essentials outstripping increases in pay for an increasing number of Americans. in the past, with a little hard work, most people could begin and end their career at one or two companies if they so chose. now being hired is becoming a strictly temporary situation; even the highly educated are being hired as "independent contractors" for set periods of time, after which they are often automatically fired regardless of performance. many at the lower end of the scale have even lost control of their shifts and hours. if these points aren't an argument for labor organization, i'm not sure what is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    As for wages, they arent really the only measure of wealth. What things cost plays an equally imoportant role. A millionaire, for example, isnt particularly well off if a Happy Meal runs him a million bucks. Inflation is more devastating to wealth than anything else and inflation is the result of government policy.
    i agree to a point. i'd simply like to see some of the missing rungs restored to the ladder. someone who works hard should be rewarded, and should have opportunities. this is becoming less and less common, and the eroding middle class is an illustration.

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    Re: NYT: Majority Of New Jobs Pay Low Wages, Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    we live in a labor reality of no job security, low pay, decreasing benefits, and the cost of essentials outstripping increases in pay for an increasing number of Americans. in the past, with a little hard work, most people could begin and end their career at one or two companies if they so chose. now being hired is becoming a strictly temporary situation; even the highly educated are being hired as "independent contractors" for set periods of time, after which they are often automatically fired regardless of performance. many at the lower end of the scale have even lost control of their shifts and hours. if these points aren't an argument for labor organization, i'm not sure what is.
    Again, if those are good arguments for unionizing, why is union membership declining? You arent ever going to see a more labor friendly administration than this one and still unions continue to fizzle. It could just be that unions are a good and necessary thing in the early stages of industrialization, but have no real role in the later stages. I sometimes think liberals look to things that "worked" in the 1930's and assume they will 'work' today--be it stimulus, infrastructure spending or unionization. Might be time for progressives to be a bit less regressive in their thinking. This isnt 1932, it is 2012.




    i agree to a point. i'd simply like to see some of the missing rungs restored to the ladder. someone who works hard should be rewarded, and should have opportunities. this is becoming less and less common, and the eroding middle class is an illustration.
    How do you go about fixing that?

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    Re: NYT: Majority Of New Jobs Pay Low Wages, Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    the OP is a great argument for labor unions, and is just one more nail in the coffin of trickle down economics as a sustainable positive for the middle class.
    Not surprisingly you did not understand what was written. People are losing decent jobs and are having to take jobs at fast food and health care facilities. It seems that the article accurately describes that we need to not only be concerned with the number of unemployed but the quality of the jobs that the employed have.

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    Re: NYT: Majority Of New Jobs Pay Low Wages, Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    the OP is a great argument for labor unions, and is just one more nail in the coffin of trickle down economics as a sustainable positive for the middle class.
    You talking about those teachers unions that have destroyed our education system. Whom you can't fire a bad teacher and all teacher get tenure, and who are against a voucher system so kids and get a real educations.

    Now tell me how trickle up economics works? How do the poor and those on welfare and food stamps create businesses to hire people?
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

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    Re: NYT: Majority Of New Jobs Pay Low Wages, Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    You talking about those teachers unions that have destroyed our education system. Whom you can't fire a bad teacher and all teacher get tenure, and who are against a voucher system so kids and get a real educations.

    Now tell me how trickle up economics works? How do the poor and those on welfare and food stamps create businesses to hire people?
    Teachers unions existed in periods in which our education system was fairing quite well by most standards. To assign blame to a singular source is a fool's errand.

    Said businesses prove to be unsustainable without the consumer activity that stems from the poor and middle classes, food stamps, since you brought them up, provide many local grocers, shipping companies, and farmers with large amounts of demand for their goods that would otherwise be absent due to personal debt and other immediate concerns.

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    Re: NYT: Majority Of New Jobs Pay Low Wages, Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Again, if those are good arguments for unionizing, why is union membership declining?
    largely because of free trade with low wage labor markets, and partially because of "pro-business" legislation. additionally, unions didn't anticipate and prepare for globalization when they had larger percentages of the workforce.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    How do you go about fixing that?
    it's going to have to be fixed from the bottom up. businesses can't expand and hire more people when there aren't enough customers to purchase their products. my suggestion would be a massive reallocation of revenue to expand our highways and infrastructure, as well as a national energy initiative. some of this money can be reallocated from American global police actions, and it's my opinion that we should let all of the tax cuts expire. basically, we need to invade the US and win the hearts and minds of Americans by hiring them to build roads and bridges. then they spend the money, and it trickles up. this plan is certainly better than paying entitlements to those who can't find good paying work. we can either pay them to do something, or we can pay them not to do something. i'd prefer the former.

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    Re: NYT: Majority Of New Jobs Pay Low Wages, Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Not surprisingly you did not understand what was written. People are losing decent jobs and are having to take jobs at fast food and health care facilities. It seems that the article accurately describes that we need to not only be concerned with the number of unemployed but the quality of the jobs that the employed have.
    my response was to the hyperpartisan right wing poster's "analysis" of the article. he / she tried to present the current economic malaise as an indictment of the president; i countered by arguing that it is more an indictment of trickle down economics and a steep drop in worker organization / representation.

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    Re: NYT: Majority Of New Jobs Pay Low Wages, Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    You talking about those teachers unions that have destroyed our education system.
    i respectfully disagree.

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    Re: NYT: Majority Of New Jobs Pay Low Wages, Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    my response was to the hyperpartisan right wing poster's "analysis" of the article. he / she tried to present the current economic malaise as an indictment of the president; i countered by arguing that it is more an indictment of trickle down economics and a steep drop in worker organization / representation.
    I have noticed some of your posts regarding unions. You may want to consider that problems unions face is less about pay and more about work rules. A good example would be all of the foreign car manufacturers that have opened MANUFACTURING plants in the U.S. Those jobs pay well, but the companies are not saddled with the lousy work rules of the UAW.

    Worker cost is not only measured in pay but also productivity. If the work force is more productive then that can offset and explain higher pay.

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    Re: NYT: Majority Of New Jobs Pay Low Wages, Study Says

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I have noticed some of your posts regarding unions. You may want to consider that problems unions face is less about pay and more about work rules. A good example would be all of the foreign car manufacturers that have opened MANUFACTURING plants in the U.S. Those jobs pay well, but the companies are not saddled with the lousy work rules of the UAW.
    unions aren't needed where working conditions are good, job security is adequate, pay is fair, and there's opportunity for workers to be rewarded for hard work and loyalty. i would argue that's not the norm these days. it is, however, present in some areas of manufacturing, and i applaud that.


    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Worker cost is not only measured in pay but also productivity. If the work force is more productive then that can offset and explain higher pay.


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