Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 46

Thread: Japan Plans To Cut Spending, Could Run Out Of Money In A Month

  1. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Where I am now
    Last Seen
    09-11-17 @ 03:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,386

    Re: Japan Plans To Cut Spending, Could Run Out Of Money In A Month

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Yea but there is a small issue there... most of that debt.. is to themselves... to their own citizens.
    That is a bad thing, not a good one.

    A country can renege on it's debts to outside sources. It will cause many problems, but it is possible. Especially considering how powerful Japan is (and her military also, btw).

    But a government can NEVER renege on debts to it's citizens or it can kiss getting re-elected goodbye and no one would EVER trust government bonds again. Which would be disastrous.


    Look at Greece; far and away most of it's debt is owed to foreigners. And there has already been lots of talk in Greece of simply defaulting those debts, leave the Euro and go back to the drachma. And there is much support in Greece for that.
    Sure, they will have great trouble getting more foreign loans. But it IS an option (and I believe the one they will eventually have to take) that is supported by the people (for obvious reasons).
    Also, if they threaten default, all the foreign banks and institutions they owe money to will surely offer them great deals not to default since if they do not they risk losing the entire loan.
    But none of this is an option if the money is owed to Greeks/Greek institutions.


    You simply cannot default on loans from your countries people/institutions.

    Out of the question - both politically and practically.
    Last edited by DA60; 09-02-12 at 06:43 PM.

  2. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Where I am now
    Last Seen
    09-11-17 @ 03:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,386

    Re: Japan Plans To Cut Spending, Could Run Out Of Money In A Month

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfoot 88 View Post
    I'll never understand why all these countries jeopardize their existence just to live on the credit card a little bit longer. Its an addiction.
    It boggles the mind how monumentally ignorant/irresponsible these people are.

  3. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Where I am now
    Last Seen
    09-11-17 @ 03:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,386

    Re: Japan Plans To Cut Spending, Could Run Out Of Money In A Month

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Its the American way of life. We all drank the cool aid spun by American economic theorists... some more than others.

    But saying that, it is not like Japan has been in decline the last 20 years despite its high debt.
    The Nikkei Index has lost 75% of it's value since 1990.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...281970-%29.svg

  4. #14
    Hard As A Rock
    Strucky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Minnesota
    Last Seen
    10-19-17 @ 08:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    2,074

    Re: Japan Plans To Cut Spending, Could Run Out Of Money In A Month

    Japan has tried stimulus after stimulus since the 1990's and all have failed....To bad Obama didn't learn from them.
    "The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."

    ~Dwight D. Eisenhower

  5. #15
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,092

    Re: Japan Plans To Cut Spending, Could Run Out Of Money In A Month

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    That is a bad thing, not a good one.

    A country and renege on it's debts to outside sources. It will cause many problems, but it is possible. Expecially considering how powerful Japan is (and her military also, btw).

    But a government can NEVER renege on debts to it's citizens or it can kiss getting re-elected goodbye and no one would EVER trust government bonds again. Which would be disastrous.


    Look at Greece; far and away most of it's debt is owed to foreigners. And there has already been lots of talk in Greece of simply defaulting those debts, leave the Euro and go back to the drachma. And there is much support in Greece for that.
    Sure, they will have great trouble getting more foreign loans. But it IS an option (and I believe the one they will eventually have to take) that is supported by the people (for obvious reasons).
    Also, if they threaten default, all the foreign banks and institutions they owe money to will surely offer them great deals not to default since if they do not they risk losing the entire loan.
    But none of this is an option if the money is owed to Greeks/Greek institutions.
    You simply cannot default on loans from your countries people/institutions.


    Out of the question - both politically and practically.
    As long as you have the ability to print money.. then you wont. Greece cant print money, hence they have a problem on that front. Now of course not getting into such debts would be the best.

    Plus in the end, defaulting to its own people, would only happen if the people started demanding the money, which they wont. They are too patriotic to do so, plus it is their savings which they at the moment dont need.

    Point is, government debt is often blown out of proportions because of politics, not reality. The whole "sovereign debt debate" is utter bull****.. it always has been. When did it start? November 7th 2008. Before that, sovereign debt was only debated among economists at dinner parties because the theories were interesting talking points. Was the almost 10 trillion dollars under Bush or 3 trillion in 1980s under Reagan a "problem"? No it was not.. that was the going economic theory of the day.. Reaganomics!

    But then a guy got elected into a house somewhere and the opposition saw that they needed a cause that would hurt this guy and make it possible to promote and continue the policies that they had been running for 20+ years. So the sovereign debt problem was invented. Its first target.. the US.. suddenly US debt numbers mattered and it was all the fault of this new guy and his people... it had not mattered a year before. And no one mentioned that most of the debt was in fact created by the very people and party (for the most part) that was now being critical of it... but hey, debt is easy to understand.. as are deficits... after all we all deal with this at our kitchen table right? And so was the Kitchen Table economists were born. And everyone forgot quickly not only who caused the economic crisis, but why and how.. because that was far too complicated to understand, but debt and deficit was much easier. And we have been there ever since, and not even punishing the very industries and people who caused the problems in the first place. Great switch and bait there. Even to this day, I would wager most American's dont know what caused the financial crisis, but they do know it is all Obama's fault...

    Then this idea spread to centre right parties in Europe. Here they saw their chance of extending their rule, by evoking the debt problem.. creating a crisis and using that crisis to push through partisan economic policies they had wanted to do but had not had the balls or political will to do.... because it would cost them their power. And those few countries where the centre right did not rule.. of course exploited the situation to win power. And so came the "European Debt Crisis". With this excuse, cuts in the usual suspects started across the board.. healthcare, social programs.. all in the while they speculated in lowering taxes for the uber rich. Now only a few countries managed the latter, but it was attempted in most.

    Of course the markets loved this, because there is nothing like a crisis to generate profits.. now that their money making machine of the US sub-prime mortgage market had gone belly up and driven their whole industry to the brink.. but now newly bailed out with tax payer money... CHA CHING! Lets exploit the fear coming from the kitchen table economics, that average people actually believe because it is so simple... not true, but simple. And they have been doing so ever since.. exploiting the markets for their own profit, while the rest of us suffer. That is why some countries were pushed off the edge and others were not. Playing the margins, with benefits for all.. profit or lower currency... screw the populations!

    In the end of the day.. debt or deficits dont really matter in the overall picture. Governments have the ability to deal with such deficits and debts over time.... and it is this.. over time that is key. This economic crisis is what.. 4-5 years old? It was 20 years in the making. You just dont fix such things over night, but thanks to kitchen table economics... it is expected to be fixed by dawn almost. And it especially does not get fixed over night when one side of the political spectrum (left or right) is exploiting the situation to gain political power. I remember Denmark in the late 1970s. We were Greece. It took us over a decade to fix the problem.. hell it took us 30 years to pay off the debt accumulated. But it was done because the markets gave us time to deal with it. Now days.. pft, a country does not even get a half a year before the markets demand massive results.
    PeteEU

  6. #16
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,092

    Re: Japan Plans To Cut Spending, Could Run Out Of Money In A Month

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    The Nikkei Index has lost 75% of it's value since 1990.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...281970-%29.svg
    And? Are Japanese 75% poorer now? Are they starving on the streets? Have they lost the technology and manufacturing edge? No.

    The Nikkei Index was in a massive bubble.. hence the bubble burst.
    PeteEU

  7. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Where I am now
    Last Seen
    09-11-17 @ 03:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,386

    Re: Japan Plans To Cut Spending, Could Run Out Of Money In A Month

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    As long as you have the ability to print money.. then you wont. Greece cant print money, hence they have a problem on that front. Now of course not getting into such debts would be the best.

    Plus in the end, defaulting to its own people, would only happen if the people started demanding the money, which they wont. They are too patriotic to do so, plus it is their savings which they at the moment dont need.
    The point was not if and or when they default.

    The point was that they cannot EVER default on their own people (both politically and practically) but they can default on foreign owned debt.

    So when people say that Japan has an advantage that it's own people/institutions own the debt, that is NOT an advantage...that is a disadvantage.


    And patriotism?

    No one is patriotic if they eventually are starving or about to be thrown out of their home because suddenly the government 'investments' they bought are suddenly declared worthless by that government. They just want their money.
    This isn't WW2 when most Japanese thought Hirohito was a semi-god and they were so ignorant/brainwashed that they did almost anything he/the government said.


    There is NO WAY the government will default on it's domestic held debt unless a) they have a political death wish, b) they are in a major war or c) they had a natural disaster about ten times worse then the March '11 tsunami.

    You want to believe otherwise - go ahead.

    I don't really care much.
    Last edited by DA60; 09-02-12 at 08:01 PM.

  8. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Where I am now
    Last Seen
    09-11-17 @ 03:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,386

    Re: Japan Plans To Cut Spending, Could Run Out Of Money In A Month

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And? Are Japanese 75% poorer now? Are they starving on the streets? Have they lost the technology and manufacturing edge? No.
    75% poorer? That is your standard?
    Mine is are they better off? Are they poorer now?
    They owe 2.2 times more then the ENTIRE GDP of their country. That is about 3 times worse then in 1990.
    43% of every dollar they pay in taxes goes STRICTLY towards debt servicing - and it is getting worse every year.
    Their stock market has lost 75% of it's value.

    Yeah - I would say they are relatively poorer now then 20 years ago.

    That is what massive government spending has given the Japanese people.

    The Nikkei Index was in a massive bubble.. hence the bubble burst.
    For twenty years? Bubbles don't take 20 years to burst. Check the chart...the Nikkei has been falling for decades.


    Hey, you want to live in denial - go ahead.

    Doesn't matter much to me.

    So unless you have links to unbiased evidence that proves your points - I am moving on...life is too short to debate with closed minded people.


    Have a nice day.
    Last edited by DA60; 09-02-12 at 08:14 PM.

  9. #19
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Japan Plans To Cut Spending, Could Run Out Of Money In A Month

    they will have great trouble getting more foreign loans
    anyone hundreds of B's underwater will have trouble getting ANY kind of loan

    last wednesday: S&P Downgrades Illinois' Credit Rating | Fox Business

    "investors in the $3.7 trillion us municipal bond market have been demanding higher yields for illinois debt as the state's fiscal problems fester"

    it's amazing anyone would have to explain these things, like the need to breath air

    it apparently requires zero thought to click "post quick reply"

    oh well

    seeya at the polls, progressives

    such severe lack of perscipacity would preclude the winning of an election in boston

  10. #20
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Japan Plans To Cut Spending, Could Run Out Of Money In A Month

    too patriotic to demand their money?

    Greeks withdraw $894 million in a day - World News

    Greeks pull cash out of banks as confidence wanes

    Pressure builds on Spain's banks - Street Sweep: Fortune's Wall Street Blog Term Sheet

    In Spain, investors watch for run on banks - Los Angeles Times

    sovereign debt invented on 11-7-08 (LOL!):

    david stockman, anyone?

    the gipper STILL gets grief from his few remaining detractors

    jfk and the "balance of payments deficit?"

    franklin "deficit" roosevelt, who caved in 36?

    taxing the uber rich?

    yesterday: French pessimism nears all-time high -poll | Reuters

    debt doesn't matter?

    Japan could run out of money in a month - Telegraph

    vote obama, 2012!

    we'll just print more money!

    LOL!

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •