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Thread: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well, I think that just proves the point. Districts that pay less than what the labor is actually worth, will have trouble filling those positions. If they want to fill those positions, they'll have to pay more. Similarly, districts that pay more than what the labor is worth will have an oversupply of teachers willing to work there. And the latter situation is far more common.
    But doesn't the theory indicate that if you have a very large supply of applicants like Bloomfield Hills has every year, that the salary would then be lower because the supply is so high and demand is rather small?
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'd prefer instead to increase hours and/or hire more talented people by changing the structure of the compensation.
    Increase weekly hours? They work about 9-10 hours each day, go home and continue working. I don't know how your going to increase their work hours.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If teachers salaries are determined by supply and demand could you explain why big city districts with hundreds of openings in the recent past had some of the lowest wages? I refer to Detroit which routinely had several hundred openings in the past 20 years that they could never fill while the salaries there were in the bottom 25% of tri-county districts encompassing over 70 school districts.

    Concurrently, when a top ten salary district like Bloomfield Hills had one opening they would routinely get hundreds and hundreds of applications and they never had jobs that went unclaimed.

    So how does supply and demand work into this reality?
    Come on, Detroit is a dying city in its final death throes. Oh, and here's how the teacher's union is helping, by the way:

    In a letter to substitutes published on its website, the Detroit Federation of Teachers calls on substitute teachers to “cease and desist with the following responsibilities”:

    • Developing lesson plans. Let the administrator provide lesson plans daily or weekly for students in your care, or develop a “survival kit,” activities designed to give students something to do for the periods you have them.
    • Do not grade assignments given to students. Let the administration check the assignments you issue.
    • Do not enter grades into the grade book. Turn in the grade book you have maintained to the administrator. The administrator can enter any grades achieved and average them for card marking.
    • Do not complete the computerized grade sheets. The administrator can enter in grades.
    • Do not participate in parent-teacher conferences. Let the administrator confer with parents on a student’s progress in class.


    Effectively, the union is demanding substitute teachers STOP educating the youth of Detroit and instead act as mere babysitters. In the letter, DFT President Keith R. Johnson says “I truly regret the necessity to take this action because it is not in the best interest of our students. However, I can no longer allow our members to be treated in such a manner…” An absolute admission that students are NOT the center of concern for the teachers’ union in Detroit. And though Johnson “regrets” taking action that is not in students’ best interest, a sacrifice must be made for the union to get its way and that sacrifice will be the children…the innocent, malleable youth of Detroit…the future of the dying city.
    Union says stop teaching students in Detroit America, You Asked For It!
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But doesn't the theory indicate that if you have a very large supply of applicants like Bloomfield Hills has every year, that the salary would then be lower because the supply is so high and demand is rather small?
    If the school is paying its workers in accordance with what the market suggests their labor is actually worth, then yes. Salaries would fall until eventually the school didn't have such an oversupply of qualified teachers. And this is precisely what SHOULD happen from a policy perspective. However, if some artificial force (e.g. a teacher's union or state law or other political pressure) is forcing the school to pay MORE than what the labor is worth, then this kind of oversupply is exactly what economics suggests would happen.
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But doesn't the theory indicate that if you have a very large supply of applicants like Bloomfield Hills has every year, that the salary would then be lower because the supply is so high and demand is rather small?
    No, because Bloomfield Hills is a clean, nice place to live and much of Chicago is a dangerous dirty hellhole of over priced housing for what you get.

    Chicago teacher pay isn't based upon skill, but seniority, so teacher quality and teacher salary have no relationship in Chicago. Don't tell us the starting salary of a teacher in Chicago. What is the salary AND benefits AND retirement AND insurance values total of a teacher who has been there for 15 years?

    More importantly, what is the number of non-teacher staff and administrators and their salaries? What is the total budget expenditures for salaries that are NOT teachers compared to the total for those who are? Administrators pursue raises by hiding behind teachers.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Come on, Detroit is a dying city in its final death throes. Oh, and here's how the teacher's union is helping, by the way:



    Union says stop teaching students in Detroit America, You Asked For It!
    They should just go ahead and bulldoze down the rest of Detriot.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    No, because Bloomfield Hills is a clean, nice place to live and much of Chicago is a dangerous dirty hellhole of over priced housing for what you get.

    Chicago teacher pay isn't based upon skill, but seniority, so teacher quality and teacher salary have no relationship in Chicago. Don't tell us the starting salary of a teacher in Chicago. What is the salary AND benefits AND retirement AND insurance values total of a teacher who has been there for 15 years?

    More importantly, what is the number of non-teacher staff and administrators and their salaries? What is the total budget expenditures for salaries that are NOT teachers compared to the total for those who are? Administrators pursue raises by hiding behind teachers.
    Joko, are you from Chicago? If so, you may be interested in this link: Family Taxpayers Foundation
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    This is just the Wisconsin teacher strike debate all over again. However, because of how heads Chicago the teachers will win anything and everything they want - though will make it appear a compromise...
    ... CORRECTION, the administrators will get everything they want.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Joko, are you from Chicago? If so, you may be interested in this link: Family Taxpayers Foundation
    I was in Chicago for about a decade. I was totally 100% non-political and lived in a flat across from the club I worked at. My life was only about survival and pleasure. I moved to a quiet little city in West Florida a little over 4 years ago. Total change in about everything of my life.

    In my opinion, while Chicago has its wealthy areas, a lot of options and diversities, it also is a dirty, dangerous and corrupt city overpriced to live in and many other drawbacks, plus I hated the weather. Cold. Damp. Windy. Dirty air. I don't like snow.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    What an understatement. You can't even be honest.
    wow. he acknowledges that tenure may need revision and you then accuse him of lying

    NYC's Rubber Rooms were finally disbanded in 2010, after years of sending teachers accused of wrongdoing to these daycare centers for the duration of time it took to arduously work through the firing process, where they received full pay, ran businesses out of them, slept, did crossword puzzles, and stayed on the public school system's payroll.
    notice that this was the NEGOTIATED method to keep teachers out of the classroom, while recognizing that none of those teachers assigned to report to the 'rubber room' had been determined to be guilty of anything
    that approach was consistent with American values that it is wrong to punish someone without a fair hearing
    let me point out that in such a negotiation the employer was sitting at the table and agreed to such a plan. where is your expressed angst against the employer for not fashioning a more reasonable, cost-effective approach?

    At the time of disbanding, there were 550 teachers sucking up $30 million a year from "the children" they love so much. From 2008 to 2010, the school system was only able to dismiss three teachers for incompetence and 45 for misconduct including corporal punishment, sexual harrassment or crimes.
    and that the employer was only able to document inappropriate conduct/teaching against less than 10% of those accused tells us what, exactly? to me it says there were too many teachers who were unfairly alleged to have acted inappropriately, because the employer was without the facts to support such allegations. and THAT is the very reason why tenure is important to teachers; without it, they are vulnerable to those in authority who can find no wrong doing but who express displeasure at the teachers' beliefs/opinions in a political work environment

    And, of course, that resolution did nothing to resolve this issue:
    While the agreement may solve the thorny public relations problems for the city and the union, it does nothing to address the more costly absent teacher reserve pool, which consists of teachers who have lost their jobs because of budget cuts or when a school is shut down for poor performance, but have not been accused of incompetence or wrongdoing. Those teachers, who number about 1,100, do not have permanent classroom jobs but draw full salaries; the city spends roughly $100 million annually on the pool.
    and that the employer has a pool of employees - whose only action was to be well performing - it has contracted to pay, but no positions to place them in, why is that the blame of the teachers/union and not because of the employers' incompetence to enter into such a fiscally irresponsible agreement?



    Well, let's start with vouchers. I actually think that says it all.
    why would the teachers be supportive of vouchers? there is a finite budget for education. every dollar sent to a private contractor is a dollar less available to the public education system
    vouchers will only provide a taxpayer subsidy to those affluent parents who can now afford to send their kids to private schools. it is but another transfer of tax benefits from the working person to the elite

    If they wanted to help students, they would clearly demonstrate that by bargaining at the table for them.
    that is not the purpose of the union. its fiduciary responsibility - one required by federal law - is to represent the employees. the teachers. now, of course, when the desires of the teachers aligns with the needs of the students, that strengthens the union's/teachers' argument. but make no mistake, the union is representing the interests of the teachers ... its purpose is NOT to represent the interests of the students. the education department receives taxpayer money to do that

    They would present an evaluation system.
    what makes you believe they do not do this
    the problem is, an effective evaluation system requires work on the part of the administrators. it is they who want an evaluation system that places a premium on easiness rather than accuracy

    They would insist on policing themselves.
    what makes you believe that they do not now do this
    their authority is limited, but be assured, most teachers know who the weak links are in their group. just as i would bet no one here defends co-workers who do not pull their own weight, that is also true of teachers
    but let's face the facts. there is a defined mechanism to get rid of poorly performing teachers. but management is too lazy to follow that protocol. it is easier for them to ignore the problem and allow the inferior teachers to inflict themselves on another class of students
    in short, your anger is misplaced. the persons who are allowing weak teachers to remain in the class rooms are education managers. the union cannot defend the indefensible (tho by law, they must attempt to represent them, too); management needs to get off its ass and actually follow the procedure to document the lousy teachers' performance record so that they can either be re-trained to become fully performing or they can be forced to do something other than teach
    and you have provided the evidence to show why i am correct in this damnation of education management. less than 10% of the accused teachers assigned to the rubber room were actually found to be problematic teachers ... that is an indictment of the quality of school management


    I don't blame teachers. I blame the teachers' unions.
    and you betray your ignorance of unions. the unions are the employees they represent. by federal law the employees are required to conduct democratic elections to elect their union leadership

    They are greedy pigs interested only in making sure they promote divisiveness between teachers and the school system to protect their own jobs.
    that ignorance of unionization appears once again
    those 'greedy pigs' you castigate are our educators, who are performing their fiduciary responsibility required under law: they are representing the interests of the teachers who elected them to do so

    And, most of all, they would recognize and respect that CPS is out of money.
    when you have no money to buy something, do you then go shopping to purchase stuff you cannot afford? that is what the chicago schools did. they are wanting the teachers to work more hours for zero additional pay. what would you or anyone else on this board think if your own employer wanted you to expand your work schedule but offered you no additional money for that additional work?
    my guess is, if you had a union, you would RUN to your rep and insist that he do something to address that inequity
    and if you are like most represented employees, you would then go behind his back and complain that he did not do enough
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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