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Thread: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by Running View Post
    You see that is the beauty of being a teacher. You show up, give them a worksheet you printed ten years ago. And now no one can accuse you of doing nothing. People like you eat it up and defend government incompetence cause you'd be just as bad if you were in a government position.
    having grown up in a household headed by two teachers, i can say that you are demonstrating that you know next to nothing about what teachers really do.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I agree that tenure, in some areas, could be more efficient. However, can you demonstrate the low efficiency of tenure is the fault of unions and not of the government or other groups?
    It's the fault of the teacher's unions for lobbying the government for inefficient tenure policies, and it's the fault of the government for listening to them.

    Please show what "education innovation" teacher's unions are opposed to, why they say they are against, what their counter proposals are and why the "educational innovation" they oppose is better for students than their counter proposals.
    I provided three such examples in my previous post. Innovation is never clearly better than the status quo...that's why it's innovation. Teacher's unions routinely reject ideas which, on their face, make economic sense. That doesn't mean that they'll all work as intended, but we'll never know if no one is allowed to try them. Furthermore, it isn't the union's place to decide what is and isn't the best organizational policy for the students. That's the voter's job.

    The reason I'm asking you to do this is because people often accuse teacher's unions of opposing things simply out of their own self-interest when, in fact, they oppose things because they believe that they have ideas that will help students more than the positions that they are opposing or because the things they are opposing are demonstrably negative in terms of how they affect students.
    Not buying it. Teacher's union's are no different than any other self-interested organization. Their members pay dues, and their entire reason for existence is to maximize benefits to their members. So pardon me if I roll my eyes whenever they insist on some policy because "think of the children," which just so happens to benefit the teacher's union as well.

    Well, actually, teacher's needs and student's needs match up the majority of time which is one of the reasons why opposing teacher's unions is a perplexing position.
    Their interests match up SOME of the time. And when they don't, you can bet that the teacher's unions will do what it thinks is in its OWN best interest at the expense of the students 100% of the time.

    Teacher and students want safer schools. Teachers and students want/need a diverse types of classes.
    Presumably if it's a good educational policy, then the voters can be convinced to elect people who support such policies to the Board of Education without such strong-arming tactics.

    That said, can you please demonstrate how you know that "it's just a coincidence" and that the teacher's union doesn't genuinely want those things for students?
    Why WOULD the teacher's union care about the needs of the students? That isn't why they exist. I wouldn't expect teacher's unions to care any more about the needs of the students than, say, a coffee corporation or a plumber's guild does. They exist for the benefit of their owners...not for the benefit of students.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-31-12 at 11:27 AM.
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I agree that tenure, in some areas, could be more efficient. However, can you demonstrate the low efficiency of tenure is the fault of unions and not of the government or other groups?
    What an understatement. You can't even be honest. NYC's Rubber Rooms were finally disbanded in 2010, after years of sending teachers accused of wrongdoing to these daycare centers for the duration of time it took to arduously work through the firing process, where they received full pay, ran businesses out of them, slept, did crossword puzzles, and stayed on the public school system's payroll.

    The union did not appear to sacrifice much in the deal. While the agreement speeds hearings, it does little to change the arduous process of firing teachers, particularly ineffective ones. Administrators still must spend months or even years documenting poor performance before the department can begin hearings, which will still last up to two months.
    At the time of disbanding, there were 550 teachers sucking up $30 million a year from "the children" they love so much. From 2008 to 2010, the school system was only able to dismiss three teachers for incompetence and 45 for misconduct including corporal punishment, sexual harrassment or crimes.

    And, of course, that resolution did nothing to resolve this issue:

    While the agreement may solve the thorny public relations problems for the city and the union, it does nothing to address the more costly absent teacher reserve pool, which consists of teachers who have lost their jobs because of budget cuts or when a school is shut down for poor performance, but have not been accused of incompetence or wrongdoing. Those teachers, who number about 1,100, do not have permanent classroom jobs but draw full salaries; the city spends roughly $100 million annually on the pool.
    Please show what "education innovation" teacher's unions are opposed to, why they say they are against, what their counter proposals are and why the "educational innovation" they oppose is better for students than their counter proposals.
    Well, let's start with vouchers. I actually think that says it all.

    The reason I'm asking you to do this is because people often accuse teacher's unions of opposing things simply out of their own self-interest when, in fact, they oppose things because they believe that they have ideas that will help students more than the positions that they are opposing or because the things they are opposing are demonstrably negative in terms of how they affect students.
    If they wanted to help students, they would clearly demonstrate that by bargaining at the table for them. They would present an evaluation system. They would insist on policing themselves. I don't blame teachers. I blame the teachers' unions. They are greedy pigs interested only in making sure they promote divisiveness between teachers and the school system to protect their own jobs.

    And, most of all, they would recognize and respect that CPS is out of money.
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Teachers are already over paid and under worked
    The average starting salary for a teacher nationwide is about $39,000. I don't see that as a lot.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    The average starting salary for a teacher nationwide is about $39,000. I don't see that as a lot.
    But how much is it when you include all compensation (including health benefits) and divide by the total number of hours worked per year? That salary looks a lot better then.
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    The average starting salary for a teacher nationwide is about $39,000. I don't see that as a lot.
    Teacher salaries are some of the most guarded public sector salary secrets in our country. Illinois has a database to search by name, the most accurate in the country. Other states? Not so much.

    But, of course, we don't know where you're getting that information, because you didn't include a link.
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    But how much is it when you include all compensation (including health benefits) and divide by the total number of hours worked per year? That salary looks a lot better then.
    It's a high stress job which has a huge impact on society and individuals. And many teachers have jobs during the summers.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    It's a high stress job which has a huge impact on society and individuals.
    So are lots of other jobs.

    And many teachers have jobs during the summers.
    But presumably they get compensated for those side jobs too. And in any case, what they do off-the-clock isn't really relevant to how much they should get paid for the hours they DO work as teachers.
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Let them go on strike and replace them.

    I suspect that some Republicans pray they go on strike's in Obama Illinois in the city run by his former chief of staff before the election. Raging teacher's union leaders certainly didn't hurt Scott Walker, did it?

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So are lots of other jobs.
    What other jobs provide the same benefit to society and require the same amount of education, and pay about the same amount?

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