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Thread: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

  1. #141
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No. That's where the money gets spent. On more teachers and separate, perhaps boarding, facilities for these kids. Get them out of their neighborhoods. Give them one-on-one mentoring. Put them in an environment that, yes, isolates them -- but also gives them the attention, reward mechanisms and atta' boys that they need to succeed. I'd love to see just ONE pilot program like that. And I'd be willing to pay for it through higher taxes.
    How are you going to force kids who don't want to go to get into that program? They've committed no crime.

    What we are doing is not working. We need some out-of-the-box ideas. And this is just one. The definition of insanity, as I'm sure you know, is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. It's time for drastic changes. We are losing generations of kids with what we're doing now.
    I agree it's not working, I agree the system needs to be changed, but to be honest, those changes cannot come from the school system, they need to come from larger society. Society cannot allow these dangerous sub-cultures to remain in power.

    I just don't see that changing any time soon in our politically correct nation.
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  2. #142
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    How are you going to force kids who don't want to go to get into that program? They've committed no crime.

    I agree it's not working, I agree the system needs to be changed, but to be honest, those changes cannot come from the school system, they need to come from larger society. Society cannot allow these dangerous sub-cultures to remain in power.

    I just don't see that changing any time soon in our politically correct nation.
    I agree with you; I don't see them changing any time soon either.

    As for "How do you do get the kids to go?" If they really don't want to go; if their parent(s) can't convince them this is in their best interests? If counselors can't convince them? If other students can't convince them? Then society must give up on them for the benefit of the others who do want to learn; who do want a safe place to go to school. We can't save everybody -- even as adults.

    But I would also something to the mix, and that would be vocational training for some of these hard-core kids. A way to show them they can make a living outside of the drug culture they're probably already in -- or headed towards. We'd have to try everything to motivate these kids. And we just aren't doing that.

    I see it on these boards. Those who are in teaching absolutely protect the status quo. "Prove it'll work," they say. "We need more money," they say. "We need to attract better teachers," they say. It's always about money. Spent on them and the status quo. We need to throw the status quo in the garbage can.
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  3. #143
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    As for "How do you do get the kids to go?" If they really don't want to go; if their parent(s) can't convince them this is in their best interests? If counselors can't convince them? If other students can't convince them? Then society must give up on them for the benefit of the others who do want to learn; who do want a safe place to go to school. We can't save everybody -- even as adults.
    But the question is, what do you do with them? Take them out and shoot them? Or let them become a drain on society?

    But I would also something to the mix, and that would be vocational training for some of these hard-core kids. A way to show them they can make a living outside of the drug culture they're probably already in -- or headed towards. We'd have to try everything to motivate these kids. And we just aren't doing that.
    I agree with you, it's a shame that we removed shop classes and vocational training from high schools, they need to be replaced. Once kinds graduate from high school, they should either go to college, go into an advanced vocational training program or go into a sponsorship program with an employer. Unfortunately, we're still left with a lot of kids who have no interest in any of that, they think the government is going to support them for life, either through welfare or prison.
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  4. #144
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by Another Lurker View Post
    I mostly agree. However, in the Dim state that Uncle Joe is from, charter schools get to cherry pick their students. The rif-raf and slugs go to the public schools ... Of course the best and brightest will always out perform the slugs.

    About firing the public school administrators ... you are 98.5% correct. The administrative PC crowd needs to go. The schools need what they lack. They lack REAL DISCIPLINE. The Catholic schools have it ... and it works fine for them.

    A L
    The school is available to all and so desired 75% of attendance is selected by lottery. However, if any student refuses to so effort or is just a cut up, that student is bounced back to the regular school.

    I've given a lot of thought to what is the MAIN difference for it - and what struck me is that teachers there only stay about 3 or 4 years, not decades. Its not that they quit teaching. Rather, they go back to college for PhDs OR move up to college instructions.

    The teachers there are not just teachers, they also are students of their own subjects and once they've learned as much as they figure than can, they move on gain more knowledge. There students at the school also become teachers, in the sense they they do not just learn and regurgitate what they are told, they are given projects and studies they mostly select. In the results, the teacher learns from the students, as students learn from each other and teachers.

    That is why they totally dominated science fair, from areas of psychology and science, to math and computers, sociology to astronomy, environment to economics. What the students are presenting is new knowledge they found, rather than reciting what is already known.

    One practice they have is having the students go teach kids at lower grades the subject area the students is studying. Somehow, making a student a teacher of younger kids leads those students to want to learn and in a sense boast then to younger kids what they have learned. They also learn the challenges a teacher faces and being a trouble maker in class isn't really cool at all, its just stupid. Overall, most students quickly become proud of the knowledge they gained so want to learn more - developing pride in becoming knowledgeable instead of becoming cool by being a renegade.

    A great teacher doesn't just teach. A great teacher also is a student of the subject areas the teacher is teaching. By making the students also explorers and teachers themselves too, education become both an individual and collective effort between the students and the teachers.

    The status quo system of massive adminstrations and trying to dictate the lessons, goals and attitudes of each teacher as though the teacher is just a low level of bureaucratic machinery probably runs off most good teachers but is highly attractive to lazy ones. Even good ones may quickly give up "teaching" and instead just see it as a job they have to endure for the paycheck since they have little discretion anyway.

    Finally, the charter school absolutely would NOT teach for the standardized tests. As a result and for other reasons, there is constant conflict with the home office. Probably the only reason the charter school still exists is that every parent or involved relative of a child that attended is militantly - VERY - of the school and as the school board and administration continues to cut its budget trying to shut it down without actually openly doing so, us parents and supporters have been picking up the slack by contributions including significant ones.

  5. #145
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But the question is, what do you do with them? Take them out and shoot them? Or let them become a drain on society?
    What are we doing with them now?

    • Only 40% of black males graduate from high school.
    • 69% of Black children in America cannot read at grade level in the 4th grade, compared with 29% among White children.
    • One in three Black men between the ages of 20 and 29 years old is under correctional supervision or control.
    • “In 2001, the chances of going to prison were highest among Black males (32.2%) and Hispanic males (17.2%) and lowest among White males (5.9%). The lifetime chances of going to prison among Black females (5.6%) were nearly as high as for White males. Hispanic females (2.2%) and White females (0.9%) had much lower chances of going to prison.”
    • Blacks account for only 12% of the U.S. population but 44% of all prisoners in the United States are Black.
    • In 2000, 65% of Black male high-school dropouts in their 20’s were jobless — that is, unable to find work, not seeking it or incarcerated. By 2004, the share had grown to 72%, compared with 34% of White and 19% of Hispanic dropouts. Even when high-school graduates were included, half of Black men in their 20’s were jobless in 2004, up from 46% in 2000.
    • In 2000, 65% of Black male high-school dropouts in their 20’s were jobless — that is, unable to find work, not seeking it or incarcerated. By 2004, the share had grown to 72%, compared with 34% of White and 19% of Hispanic dropouts. Even when high-school graduates were included, half of Black men in their 20’s were jobless in 2004, up from 46% in 2000. (2003 statistics)
    • The Black male homicide rate is seven times the White male rate.
    • Black women are 18 times more likely to be raped than White women.


    These statistics are appalling.

    Statistics on African-American males - The Morehouse Male Initiative
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  6. #146
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Overall, Charter schools perform no better than public schools. Also, they actually should perform better because most are selective, cutting losse any student who might bring down their scores. And still, overall, they perform no better. This should raise some doubts about them.

    I seriously doubt that assertion. If your proof is "standardized testing" I would discount that as a measure.

    In fact, non-charter public schools starting throwing huge numbers of students into various "special educational needs" categories - thus removing them from the statistics of the school. Any student predicted to do poorly on the standardized state testing is determined to have some "learning disability" - thus their test scores are not counted. Charter schools can't do that, every student's results is counted.

    The real measure of which works better is quite a few years down the road. Ten years later, which students more likely have successful economic and acceptable to him/her career lives?

  7. #147
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    What are we doing with them now?

    • Only 40% of black males graduate from high school.
    • 69% of Black children in America cannot read at grade level in the 4th grade, compared with 29% among White children.
    • One in three Black men between the ages of 20 and 29 years old is under correctional supervision or control.
    • “In 2001, the chances of going to prison were highest among Black males (32.2%) and Hispanic males (17.2%) and lowest among White males (5.9%). The lifetime chances of going to prison among Black females (5.6%) were nearly as high as for White males. Hispanic females (2.2%) and White females (0.9%) had much lower chances of going to prison.”
    • Blacks account for only 12% of the U.S. population but 44% of all prisoners in the United States are Black.
    • In 2000, 65% of Black male high-school dropouts in their 20’s were jobless — that is, unable to find work, not seeking it or incarcerated. By 2004, the share had grown to 72%, compared with 34% of White and 19% of Hispanic dropouts. Even when high-school graduates were included, half of Black men in their 20’s were jobless in 2004, up from 46% in 2000.
    • In 2000, 65% of Black male high-school dropouts in their 20’s were jobless — that is, unable to find work, not seeking it or incarcerated. By 2004, the share had grown to 72%, compared with 34% of White and 19% of Hispanic dropouts. Even when high-school graduates were included, half of Black men in their 20’s were jobless in 2004, up from 46% in 2000. (2003 statistics)
    • The Black male homicide rate is seven times the White male rate.
    • Black women are 18 times more likely to be raped than White women.


    These statistics are appalling.

    Statistics on African-American males - The Morehouse Male Initiative
    We're putting them in prison or giving them welfare checks, of course. The whole point of this is to eliminate that as much as possible. So the question remains, what do we do with the kids who refuse an education when we know they're just going to be a drain on society?
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  8. #148
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    We're putting them in prison or giving them welfare checks, of course. The whole point of this is to eliminate that as much as possible. So the question remains, what do we do with the kids who refuse an education when we know they're just going to be a drain on society?
    I've already told you. You have some ideas? Mine is if every effort is made to get them out of public schools into boarding schools to give them one-on-one attention...if we've tried vocational education for these kids...we finally give up. We'll save a bunch. A bunch will be lost. Whatever happens, it will be better than it is today.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  9. #149
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I've already told you. You have some ideas? Mine is if every effort is made to get them out of public schools into boarding schools to give them one-on-one attention...if we've tried vocational education for these kids...we finally give up. We'll save a bunch. A bunch will be lost. Whatever happens, it will be better than it is today.
    But I already pointed out the inherent problems with your plan, you can't take kids out of their homes just because you want to. However, even assuming that everything works, then what do you do with the ones who are lost?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  10. #150
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I've already told you. You have some ideas? Mine is if every effort is made to get them out of public schools into boarding schools to give them one-on-one attention...if we've tried vocational education for these kids...we finally give up. We'll save a bunch. A bunch will be lost. Whatever happens, it will be better than it is today.
    Check this out

    The SEED Foundation

    The State Rep I work for tried to get them to come into Detroit and Michigan to set up some of their schools. During a phone call they told us that they would require at least $100,00 up front just to begin the work regardless if the school got off the ground or not. In the second year of the process, they would require between a quarter and a half million dollars to get the school okayed by the legislature. They made it quite clear that in addition to that money and full funding from the legislature, we would have to get endowments of massive amounts of money because the state grant covered less than half of the actual expenses.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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