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Thread: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That makes absolutely perfect sense to me. Then 'splain why, instead of some reasonable salary hike request, the union wants 24% over two years for the same thing?
    isn't 24% the percentage of additional time they will be working

    soon after i retired a former client recruited me. i refused to work more that three days per week (60%) and refused to accept less than 60% of the salary received at the time of federal retirement. that seemed fair to all parties, which causes me to conclude that the union's opening offer is not unreasonable. the question now becomes, can the school system afford it
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    isn't 24% the percentage of additional time they will be working

    soon after i retired a former client recruited me. i refused to work more that three days per week (60%) and refused to accept less than 60% of the salary received at the time of federal retirement. that seemed fair to all parties, which causes me to conclude that the union's opening offer is not unreasonable. the question now becomes, can the school system afford it
    No, actually. The school board agreed to hire on more teachers in light of their 24% demand. They haven't withdrawn it. And no again, the school system cannot afford it. One of the reasons is that the teachers' pension fund uses an 8% income assumption -- ridiculous -- which, of course, falls way short every year causing the school board to have to over-fund in the tens of millions of dollars.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    they won exactly every area of science fair, from science to math, environment to computer science, medical to engineering - literally every single category
    the premium is on student effort, the crisis is the lack of student effort, the only solution is somehow to get them to try as hard as we, their teachers, do

    in my class, if they don't i bust em---early, often and now

    8 problems where every single one of you tries as hard as he or she can to get it right---

    or i'll assign 80 and the rest is on you, do your math or flunk, i'll answer your questions

    way too many kids slouch around school these days, hella cool, wearing a sign on their foreheads, reading: work is for other people, but i'm as entitled to air conditioning as anyone else because, you don't understand, it's hot

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    I think we've mostly discovered that a students achievement is mostly related to their home situation.
    So why are we extending schools hours and why should we pay teachers more, when the effects of both, at best, will be marginal.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    My daughter went to a public charter school where teachers were allowed to do their own thing. Pay no higher or lower than other teachers. Same class sizes per students. A very small school physically and in student numbers. The teachers each had to teach multiple different topic classes, including those not of their field. No teachers union, no administator oversight. Overall, the per student budget was signficantly lower than the regular public school.

    Thus, the students should have done dismal.

    In fact, they won exactly every area of science fair, from science to math, environment to computer science, medical to engineering - literally every single category. Yet they aren't 1/100th of 1% of total school population.

    Why is that?

    It is because the school's sole administrator not only was selective in who he selected as teahers - not hesitating to get rid of any not doing the job - but he also was teaching classes himself.

    Teachers who wanted to teach - and none otherwise - given total power to actually teach as each saw fit and right for each class and each student. This lead to strong bonding of mutual goals between teachers and students for the goal of LEARNING - and being able to prove it. The students thought so highly of their teachers that making their teachers look good by their performance was one motivator, and the teachers openly measured their success and pride in how well their students did.

    And there is a kicker. SO UPSET at that success, the overall school administration vetoed, literally BANNED those students participating in national science fair - because they made the regular schools and the administration look so bad by those student's successes - literally torpedoing the student to cover up their incompetency.

    The first thing schools should consider doing is firing all school administrators and just letting the teacher run everything for a couple years and see how it goes. At one time, that's how schools worked. Before grossly overpaid zippy pinhead socialists and ideological hacks became the overseers and masters.
    I mostly agree. However, in the Dim state that Uncle Joe is from, charter schools get to cherry pick their students. The rif-raf and slugs go to the public schools ... Of course the best and brightest will always out perform the slugs.

    About firing the public school administrators ... you are 98.5% correct. The administrative PC crowd needs to go. The schools need what they lack. They lack REAL DISCIPLINE. The Catholic schools have it ... and it works fine for them.

    A L

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by Another Lurker View Post
    I mostly agree. However, in the Dim state that Uncle Joe is from, charter schools get to cherry pick their students. The rif-raf and slugs go to the public schools ... Of course the best and brightest will always out perform the slugs.

    About firing the public school administrators ... you are 98.5% correct. The administrative PC crowd needs to go. The schools need what they lack. They lack REAL DISCIPLINE. The Catholic schools have it ... and it works fine for them.

    A L
    Cherry-picking is a good thing. Give the kids who want to learn a chance.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  7. #127
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    In Chicago, the incentive is student loan forgiveness for X number of years spent teaching in inner-city schools. A good deal, if you ask me. BTW, there is no shortage of teachers in Chicago Public Schools even though they have, at best, a 60% high school graduation rate and schools that are little more than war zones.
    So you recognize that the Chicago Public Schools are war zones with lousy high school graduation rate. If it was me, if a "qualified" teacher was willing to work in these "war zones", I would greatly increase their salary. Cause like I said before, there's the tendency to hire those who are new to the profession or those who can't find a job anywhere else.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    So, what's the incentive for a teacher in a low-income school? If there's no incentive, the types of teachers recruited at a low-income school are going to be those who are new to the profession or those who were unable to find a job anywhere else.
    and that will be different because.......???

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    and that will be different because.......???
    I was under the impression that if you wanted to find qualified teachers who would be willing to work in low-income schools, you increase salaries and make it look more appealing? Apparently, that's wrong.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    It's value is as the only true data base for Illinois teachers' salaries and pensions.
    Not true, I know people who've checked their own salary on there and it was reported as more than it was. Some of the data is, as expected, inaccurate.

    Then, in that case, I will call it bias.
    /shrug

    What are their counter-proposals? And why are they better than letting parents decide where to send their children to school? When CPS only graduates 50% or so of its students, something's got to happen. Fast. Whole generations of kids are being left behind.
    If you don't know what their counter proposals are, then you have no authority to say that their arguments against vouchers are illegitimate because you don't even know what their arguments are. Thank you for proving my point that your argument isn't based on an actual analysis of different ideas.

    Get back to me when there's one in plavce.
    This irrelevant to the original comment I was responding to, so let's please stay on track.

    Getting back to your original argument, you said that "if they wanted to help students, they would present an evaluation system." They did present an evaluation system which I linked you to. Do you now admit that they want to help students? If not, why have you changed your standards? Please do not deflect from these questions. They are a direct response to YOUR argument.

    If that's the way you see it, I have no problem with that.
    It's not about how I see it. It's the way it is. You blame the union, but 90% of unionized teachers (thousands of teachers) support what the union is doing. If both the union and all those teachers support the same actions, then what's the difference between the two.

    Teachers in five schools (IIR) agreed to work longer days last year having been given IPods as token appreciation for doing what private industry has done for the last 4 years -- work a little longer and harder. As you know, the union blasted and negated that agreement and threatened to sue the district. Those teachers (and, in fact, two in my family who are teachers) had no problem with it at all. But. The union couldn't stand their power being usurped. And, now, here we are.
    1. The Illinois Labor Relations Board determined that the practice you described was an unfair labor practice. It was actually CPS that was trying to divide teachers by practicing such tactics. Why are you defending unfair labor practices?
    2. If 90% of unionized teachers (over 25,000 teachers) voted in favor of a strike with the union, then it's pretty clear the union has not divided them.

    I agree with you.
    Okay.

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