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Thread: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Sure, there are some systematic problems, one of which happens to be the teacher's union, and those problems absolutely, with no question, need to be addressed. That said, you don't get to whine your way out of doing the job you signed up for, then ask for a raise. These teachers' jobs are to convince the kids to learn, then to teach them. If they cannot convince them to learn, they have failed at 50% of their job right off the bat.

    It's like being a salesman. Your job is to convince people to buy your products. If you can't convince anyone, it's insane to go to your boss and demand a raise because you're not doing the job you've been hired to do. You can't expect every single person you talk to to already be convinced to buy. If that was the case, anyone could do it.
    I can see from your remarks that you are NOT a teacher.
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    So, what's the incentive for a teacher in a low-income school? If there's no incentive, the types of teachers recruited at a low-income school are going to be those who are new to the profession or those who were unable to find a job anywhere else.
    You have identified the problem. The quality of education and educators is supposed to be evenly distributed. The union rules of seniority prevent this. However, the unions will never admit this and the low performing schools are the card the union plays when it comes to salary increases.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    The link is from a staunchly conservative organization that believes instruction on global warming is "indoctrination." I just thought I'd put that out there.
    It's value is as the only true data base for Illinois teachers' salaries and pensions.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Maggie - your source clearly indicates that these ARE NOT the normal duties of the teacher nor are they the normal union recommended activities for teachers.

    You are badly confusing a temporary and suggested list of ways to find breaking the union with what the union and teachers have been doing for fifty or more years.
    I don't understand this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Please do not accuse of me dishonesty. That is no foundation on which to build a fruitful discussion. As I said, I believe that tenure could be more efficient in some areas. Just because I do not see it as problematic as you do does not mean that I am being "dishonest." On the contrary, it means that we disagree.
    Then, in that case, I will call it bias.


    The word "vouchers" is not an argument nor a demonstration of the veracity of an argument. Please show why teacher's unions say they are against vouchers, what their counter proposals are and why vouchers are better for students than their counter proposals.
    What are their counter-proposals? And why are they better than letting parents decide where to send their children to school? When CPS only graduates 50% or so of its students, something's got to happen. Fast. Whole generations of kids are being left behind.

    I've already provided links where the head of the Chicago Teacher's Union showed that they are bargaining on behalf of student interests in addition to their own interests. In addition to that, CTU leaders have given several interviews where they've explained that as well. Why is this insufficient for you?

    Air conditioning, more librarians and social workers is not the answer. It is insufficient to me because it's insufficient. At minimum, 40% of kids in CPS are failing. Paying teachers more, more librarians, more social workers, and air conditioning is hardly the answer.

    They have presented a plan for evaluation system.
    Here is the plan: http://www.ctunet.com/quest-center/r...inal_Offer.pdf

    Here is more information on the plan and their work with CPS to develop one: [url=http://www.ctunet.com/quest-center/research/teacher-evaluation/pera-faq]Chicago Teachers Union | Teacher Evaluation[/url
    Get back to me when there's one in plavce.

    If you blame the Chicago Teacher's Union, then you are blaming the 90% of unionized Chicago teachers since the majority of them voted to authorize a strike in June based on what CTU is proposing.
    If that's the way you see it, I have no problem with that.

    Please demonstrate that CTU "are greedy pigs interested only in making sure they promote divisiveness between teachers and the school system to protect their own jobs." And please demonstrate how you are not, then, calling a significant amount of teachers "greedy pigs" since the majority of teachers voted to authorize a strike.
    Teachers in five schools (IIR) agreed to work longer days last year having been given IPods as token appreciation for doing what private industry has done for the last 4 years -- work a little longer and harder. As you know, the union blasted and negated that agreement and threatened to sue the district. Those teachers (and, in fact, two in my family who are teachers) had no problem with it at all. But. The union couldn't stand their power being usurped. And, now, here we are.

    Actually, CPS should have respected the fact that it was out of money by not increasing the length of the school day, particularly since there is no demonstrable benefit to the students for doing so. I mean, how much sense does that make?
    I agree with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    that is simply dumb and silly. Teachers are professionals. It is part of the job of a professional to point out systematic defects and liabilities which could prevent the successful carrying out of their duties.
    I agree with this as well.
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    It's value is as the only true data base for Illinois teachers' salaries and pensions.



    I don't understand this post.



    Then, in that case, I will call it bias.




    What are their counter-proposals? And why are they better than letting parents decide where to send their children to school? When CPS only graduates 50% or so of its students, something's got to happen. Fast. Whole generations of kids are being left behind.



    Get back to me when there's one in plavce.



    If that's the way you see it, I have no problem with that.



    Teachers in five schools (IIR) agreed to work longer days last year having been given IPods as token appreciation for doing what private industry has done for the last 4 years -- work a little longer and harder. As you know, the union blasted and negated that agreement and threatened to sue the district. Those teachers (and, in fact, two in my family who are teachers) had no problem with it at all. But. The union couldn't stand their power being usurped. And, now, here we are.



    I agree with you.



    I agree with this as well.
    it's called "past practice"
    if there are work rules in the contract, and the employer unilaterally changes one or more of them, and the union does not object, then the union gives up its right to challenge further revisions to that contract provision because - by the union's inaction - it has already accepted the earlier changes as "past practice"
    as a result, the union has to be vigilant about such things, otherwise it renders the affected contract provisions as no longer binding and enforceable whenever the union knowingly fails to enforce the negotiated contract provisions
    (this is also true for the employer; if it allows employees to do things not provided by the terms of the contract, it cannot later enforce those provisions as they will have been accepted and established as "past practice")
    arcane and nuanced, but true
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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    It's like being a salesman
    i very strongly agree

    if, in my opinion, you want to have any chance of teaching math, for example, in this day and age, you gotta incent

    the way i've done it all my career is---you better try (every single one of you) your very hardest to do these 8 problems right---or i'll just assign 80 and you can go ahead and flunk

    of course, every class you've ever had is gonna try you---so BUST em, NOW and HARD

    yes, it's sales

    math is very hard to sell, but PERSONALITY's a blast

    if i can't come up with a little myself i can always find a kid

    i don't think i've ever had a class without at least a couple student's whose personalities i could promote

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    it's called "past practice"
    if there are work rules in the contract, and the employer unilaterally changes one or more of them, and the union does not object, then the union gives up its right to challenge further revisions to that contract provision because - by the union's inaction - it has already accepted the earlier changes as "past practice"
    as a result, the union has to be vigilant about such things, otherwise it renders the affected contract provisions as no longer binding and enforceable whenever the union knowingly fails to enforce the negotiated contract provisions
    (this is also true for the employer; if it allows employees to do things not provided by the terms of the contract, it cannot later enforce those provisions as they will have been accepted and established as "past practice")
    arcane and nuanced, but true
    That makes absolutely perfect sense to me. Then 'splain why, instead of some reasonable salary hike request, the union wants 24% over two years for the same thing?
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    My daughter went to a public charter school where teachers were allowed to do their own thing. Pay no higher or lower than other teachers. Same class sizes per students. A very small school physically and in student numbers. The teachers each had to teach multiple different topic classes, including those not of their field. No teachers union, no administator oversight. Overall, the per student budget was signficantly lower than the regular public school.

    Thus, the students should have done dismal.

    In fact, they won exactly every area of science fair, from science to math, environment to computer science, medical to engineering - literally every single category. Yet they aren't 1/100th of 1% of total school population.

    Why is that?

    It is because the school's sole administrator not only was selective in who he selected as teahers - not hesitating to get rid of any not doing the job - but he also was teaching classes himself.

    Teachers who wanted to teach - and none otherwise - given total power to actually teach as each saw fit and right for each class and each student. This lead to strong bonding of mutual goals between teachers and students for the goal of LEARNING - and being able to prove it. The students thought so highly of their teachers that making their teachers look good by their performance was one motivator, and the teachers openly measured their success and pride in how well their students did.

    And there is a kicker. SO UPSET at that success, the overall school administration vetoed, literally BANNED those students participating in national science fair - because they made the regular schools and the administration look so bad by those student's successes - literally torpedoing the student to cover up their incompetency.

    The first thing schools should consider doing is firing all school administrators and just letting the teacher run everything for a couple years and see how it goes. At one time, that's how schools worked. Before grossly overpaid zippy pinhead socialists and ideological hacks became the overseers and masters.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Overall, Charter schools perform no better than public schools. Also, they actually should perform better because most are selective, cutting losse any student who might bring down their scores. And still, overall, they perform no better. This should raise some doubts about them.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    So, what's the incentive for a teacher in a low-income school? If there's no incentive, the types of teachers recruited at a low-income school are going to be those who are new to the profession or those who were unable to find a job anywhere else.
    There really is no incentive for teachers to go to some schools, other than they have the heart of a social worker. Even then, it is not hard for teachers to get totally frustrated in some of those schools.

    Constant disruptions, no means of disciplining students, work in areas that have higher number of deaths each year than the military does in combat zones, have to work with parents who don't care and only use the school system as a daycare, the school has security and cops all over and has more in common with a prison than a school.

    Even if you paid teachers for those types of schools double others, you still are only going to get those who cannot get hired at a different schools and they will probably only stay until they do get another position. Frankly, anyone who would actually work in those schools very long has a heart of gold, but the brains of a gnat.

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    Re: Chicago Teachers Union Gives 10-Day Strike Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    So, what's the incentive for a teacher in a low-income school? If there's no incentive, the types of teachers recruited at a low-income school are going to be those who are new to the profession or those who were unable to find a job anywhere else.
    In Chicago, the incentive is student loan forgiveness for X number of years spent teaching in inner-city schools. A good deal, if you ask me. BTW, there is no shortage of teachers in Chicago Public Schools even though they have, at best, a 60% high school graduation rate and schools that are little more than war zones.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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