Federal court rejects Texas voter ID law

danarhea · Aug 30, 2012

WASHINGTON (AP) — A federal court has ruled against a Texas law that would require voters to present photo IDs to election officials before being allowed to cast ballots in November.
A three-judge panel in Washington ruled Thursday that the law imposes "strict, unforgiving burdens on the poor" and noted that racial minorities in Texas are more likely to live in poverty.

I agree with this, and here is why:

1) A while back, I lost my driver's license, and had to get another one. In order to do so, I had to obtain my birth certificate, which cost me $25.00. Then my replacement license was another 10 bucks. If you don't have photo ID to begin with, then the cost is $16.00, which makes for a total of $41.00. OK, not that much money to me, but for someone who is poor, that is a barrier that he or she might not be able to hurdle. In essense, this amounts to a poll tax, which is a form of voter suppression.

2) Is photo ID a good idea? Yes, I think so. All Texas has to do is to make sure that the photo ID, as well as ALL underlying documents required to obtain it, is free of charge. Then there is nothing equivalent to a poll tax in the law, and the law would be constitutional.

Article is here.

TheNextEra · Aug 30, 2012

danarhea said:
2) Is photo ID a good idea? Yes, I think so. All Texas has to do is to make sure that the photo ID, as well as ALL underlying documents required to obtain it, is free of charge. Then there is nothing equivalent to a poll tax in the law, and the law would be constitutional.

Yep, I would support it if the I.D. and the ability to get supporting documents was free of charge. I don't like illegal immigrants, but I stand by that I would rather let 10 illegal immigrants in than suppress the vote of one U.S. citizen.

Hicup · Aug 30, 2012

I don't agree, in fact this rulling is insane!

Tim-

Hicup · Aug 30, 2012

TheNextEra said:
Yep, I would support it if the I.D. and the ability to get supporting documents was free of charge. I don't like illegal immigrants, but I stand by that I would rather let 10 illegal immigrants in than suppress the vote of one U.S. citizen.

A little less bling and an ID can be had relatively easily. This is nonesense, period!

Tim-

danarhea · Aug 30, 2012

Hicup said:
A little less bling and an ID can be had relatively easily. This is nonesense, period!

Tim-

So all black people are poor because they have "bling"? Nonsense indeed.

iliveonramen · Aug 30, 2012

Is photo ID a good idea? Yes, I think so. All Texas has to do is to make sure that the photo ID, as well as ALL underlying documents required to obtain it, is free of charge. Then there is nothing equivalent to a poll tax in the law, and the law would be constitutional.

Yeah man...at the end of the day there are possibly millions of people in the country that have to go out and spend money (they may not have) to vote in order to stop a handful of voter fraud cases. Makes no sense if you're looking at it as a real measure to stop voter fraud.

Fishstyx · Aug 30, 2012

Actually, the law allowed for a free voter ID to be issued. Perhaps the the quick fix is to offer birth certificates free as well, at least to the supposed disenfranchised poor.

danarhea · Aug 30, 2012

Fishstyx said:
Actually, the law allowed for a free voter ID to be issued. Perhaps the the quick fix is to offer birth certificates free as well, at least to the supposed disenfranchised poor.

Actually, NO IT DIDN'T. To vote with that "free" voter ID, you would have had to present a photo ID.

Fishstyx · Aug 30, 2012

danarhea said:
Actually, NO IT DIDN'T. To vote with that "free" voter ID, you would have had to present a photo ID.

No you don't. You obtain the ID from the DMV. If you don't have a photo ID, you can use yoru birth certificate and a SS card. You get your ID, for free and you're good to go. As I said, if the $25 is truly considered a burden (don't really think it is) to obtain your birth certificate, than offer it for free. Its the quick fix.

TxDPS - Driver License or ID requirements

Paschendale · Aug 30, 2012

Fishstyx said:
No you don't. You obtain the ID from the DMV. If you don't have a photo ID, you can use yoru birth certificate and a SS card. You get your ID, for free and you're good to go. As I said, if the $25 is truly considered a burden (don't really think it is) to obtain your birth certificate, than offer it for free. Its the quick fix.

TxDPS - Driver License or ID requirements

SS cards aren't free either. Neither is transportation to the DMV during operating hours, when a poor voter would otherwise be working and can't get away. Getting to the poll to vote, on the other hand, is usually much easier, since it is often held at local schools that are frequently within walking distance or accessible by already existing public transit. Or even by schoolbuses.

Hicup · Aug 30, 2012

danarhea said:
So all black people are poor because they have "bling"? Nonsense indeed.

Well it was mostly tongue and cheek..

However, ever been to the wlefare office? Lot's of bling going on down there.

Point is this, in NY state we all had to get "enhanced" drivers licenses from the state at a cost of $65.00 to cross the border. Now, nothing special was done to verify anything about our status or anything, all we had to do was fill out a form and hand it to the DMV dude and boom we got a new enhanced DL. Maybe that should have been free as well?

I say the cost of getting ID is marginal, and I'm not against the tax payer picking up the dime for the real hardcore poor, but damn, Dan, come on, we must at some time, and as citizens begin to feel as though some things are our duty to cover the costs of, shouldn't we? If we want a safe and fair voting system, shouldn't we as citizens pick up the tab. We all (well less a few hardcore liberals and the ACLU) recognize that our current system for registering votes is flawed, so I believe that we have a duty to pay for our own ID's if we want to maintain the integrity of the system.

Like I said for the few and I mean very few people that truly can't afford it I'm sure we can accomodate, but we have to stop this entitlement culture somewhere?

Tim-

Fishstyx · Aug 30, 2012

Paschendale said:
SS cards aren't free either. Neither is transportation to the DMV during operating hours, when a poor voter would otherwise be working and can't get away. Getting to the poll to vote, on the other hand, is usually much easier, since it is often held at local schools that are frequently within walking distance or accessible by already existing public transit. Or even by schoolbuses.

SS cards are free. I just did mine 6 months ago.

So now we're getting into transportation too? Sorry, thats just a rediculous friggin argument. They get to work, don't they? No one can give them a lift? Instead of spending milllions of dollars fighting these voter ID laws by various voter advocate groups, why not provide transportation to those that need to get to the DMV to get an idea? Why aren't these people advocating helping them comply with the law instead of opening up the possiblity that voter fraud can easily occur.

Phys251 · Aug 30, 2012

Directly from the ruling:

"In reaching this conclusion, we emphasize the narrowness of this opinion. Specifically,
we have decided nothing more than that, in this particular litigation and on this particular record, Texas has failed to demonstrate that its particular voter ID law lacks retrogressive effect. Nothing in this opinion remotely suggests that section 5 bars all covered jurisdictions from implementing photo ID laws. To the contrary, under our reasoning today, such laws might well be precleared if they ensure (1) that all prospective voters can easily obtain free photo ID, and (2) that any underlying documents required to obtain that ID are truly free of charge."

Completely agree with the highlighted conditions.

danarhea · Aug 30, 2012

Hicup said:
Well it was mostly tongue and cheek..

However, ever been to the wlefare office? Lot's of bling going on down there.

Point is this, in NY state we all had to get "enhanced" drivers licenses from the state at a cost of $65.00 to cross the border. Now, nothing special was done to verify anything about our status or anything, all we had to do was fill out a form and hand it to the DMV dude and boom we got a new enhanced DL. Maybe that should have been free as well?

I say the cost of getting ID is marginal, and I'm not against the tax payer picking up the dime for the real hardcore poor, but damn, Dan, come on, we must at some time, and as citizens begin to feel as though some things are our duty to cover the costs of, shouldn't we? If we want a safe and fair voting system, shouldn't we as citizens pick up the tab. We all (well less a few hardcore liberals and the ACLU) recognize that our current system for registering votes is flawed, so I believe that we have a duty to pay for our own ID's if we want to maintain the integrity of the system.

Like I said for the few and I mean very few people that truly can't afford it I'm sure we can accomodate, but we have to stop this entitlement culture somewhere?

Tim-

The cost is marginal to some, but prohibitive to the poor, and therefore constitutes a poll tax, which is unconstitutional.

Deuce · Aug 30, 2012

Another thing to consider is the actual availability of these services. Many areas that happen to be Democrat districts only have the appropriate office open ONE day per month. Coincidentally these are all areas controlled by Republican legislatures. One town was only open 5 days a year.

Yeah, keep pretending this is about voter fraud.

Hicup · Aug 30, 2012

danarhea said:
The cost is marginal to some, but prohibitive to the poor, and therefore constitutes a poll tax, which is unconstitutional.

Like I said I don't see why we can't accomodate those truly in need.

Tim-

Aderleth · Aug 30, 2012

Hicup said:
Well it was mostly tongue and cheek..

However, ever been to the wlefare office? Lot's of bling going on down there.

Point is this, in NY state we all had to get "enhanced" drivers licenses from the state at a cost of $65.00 to cross the border. Now, nothing special was done to verify anything about our status or anything, all we had to do was fill out a form and hand it to the DMV dude and boom we got a new enhanced DL. Maybe that should have been free as well?

I say the cost of getting ID is marginal, and I'm not against the tax payer picking up the dime for the real hardcore poor, but damn, Dan, come on, we must at some time, and as citizens begin to feel as though some things are our duty to cover the costs of, shouldn't we? If we want a safe and fair voting system, shouldn't we as citizens pick up the tab. We all (well less a few hardcore liberals and the ACLU) recognize that our current system for registering votes is flawed, so I believe that we have a duty to pay for our own ID's if we want to maintain the integrity of the system.

Like I said for the few and I mean very few people that truly can't afford it I'm sure we can accomodate, but we have to stop this entitlement culture somewhere?
Tim-

The part in bold gets you into some trouble. Voting isn't an entitlement, it's a fundamental right under the Constitution. Does this mean that one is entitled to a free ID? Of course not, but it does mean that if you require an ID to vote, that ID damn well better be free, or else you are effectively charging people to vote, which is (as has been pointed out) unconstitutional.

zstep18 · Aug 30, 2012

Hicup said:
Like I said for the few and I mean very few people that truly can't afford it I'm sure we can accomodate, but we have to stop this entitlement culture somewhere?

Still, in my opinion, voting is an essential right which should require the least amount of restrictions possible. With the right to vote being so important in society, I look at any restrictions to voting with great suspicion.

Erod · Aug 30, 2012

This ruling has absolutely nothing to do with the "cost" of a photo ID and EVERYTHING to do with laying the groundwork for illegals to vote in elections. It is nothing more than a bribe for the Hispanic vote.

What must life be like to completely lack integrity.

Aderleth · Aug 30, 2012

Erod said:
This ruling has absolutely nothing to do with the "cost" of a photo ID and EVERYTHING to do with laying the groundwork for illegals to vote in elections. It is nothing more than a bribe for the Hispanic vote.

Right. Because federal judges are really into getting illegal aliens to vote. It's very important to them.

MaggieD · Aug 30, 2012

danarhea said:
I agree with this, and here is why:

1) A while back, I lost my driver's license, and had to get another one. In order to do so, I had to obtain my birth certificate, which cost me $25.00. Then my replacement license was another 10 bucks. If you don't have photo ID to begin with, then the cost is $16.00, which makes for a total of $41.00. OK, not that much money to me, but for someone who is poor, that is a barrier that he or she might not be able to hurdle. In essense, this amounts to a poll tax, which is a form of voter suppression.

2) Is photo ID a good idea? Yes, I think so. All Texas has to do is to make sure that the photo ID, as well as ALL underlying documents required to obtain it, is free of charge. Then there is nothing equivalent to a poll tax in the law, and the law would be constitutional.

Article is here.

I agree with your #2. I have no problem with that. I think having voter identification is very important. If someone doesn't have a State I.D., they should be able to go to the Secretary of State's office, and the Secretary of State's office should obtain all necessary documents. I think that's fair.

Your personal experience reminds me of the hassle it can be to get required documents. Most people wouldn't have to go through this, as most people have driver's licenses or state i.d.'s already. But for those who don't? We should help them get it.

Paschendale · Aug 30, 2012

Fishstyx said:
SS cards are free. I just did mine 6 months ago.

So now we're getting into transportation too? Sorry, thats just a rediculous friggin argument. They get to work, don't they? No one can give them a lift? Instead of spending milllions of dollars fighting these voter ID laws by various voter advocate groups, why not provide transportation to those that need to get to the DMV to get an idea? Why aren't these people advocating helping them comply with the law instead of opening up the possiblity that voter fraud can easily occur.

I got a SS card about two years ago. It wasn't free.

I don't know, why don't we include transportation and free access to these IDs in the voter ID laws? The answer is probably because the laws aren't aimed at ensuring accuracy in voting, but rather just at preventing certain demographics (which statistically tend to vote D) from voting.

What if...? · Aug 30, 2012

Paschendale said:
I got a SS card about two years ago. It wasn't free.

I don't know, why don't we include transportation and free access to these IDs in the voter ID laws? The answer is probably because the laws aren't aimed at ensuring accuracy in voting, but rather just at preventing certain demographics (which statistically tend to vote D) from voting.

The logical time to do this kind of thing is right AFTER an election, not right before.

And i hear a bunch of folks are planning to challenge voters, so your ID and registration better have the same address.

If you manage to not be scrubbed off the roles because your name resembles a felons.

DiAnna · Aug 30, 2012

Sorry, I don't think proving you are who you say you are when you show up at the polls is a hardship. Hell, you can't even open a bank account without a photo ID... or cash a welfare check, for those of you ready to say "folks too poor to get a photo ID are too poor to have a bank account." If folks don't have a copy of their birth certificate, they need to get one pronto, especially if they want to vote.

When I got my first California driver's license, I had to show my birth certificate and IIRC, one other form of identification (could have been SS#). When I registered to vote in California, I had to show my driver's license which was accepted in lieu of a birth certificate only because California law required the certificate BEFORE it issued anyone a driver's license.

Photo ID is required for just about everything, from cashing checks, to getting on a plane, to being stopped for a traffic ticket. Don't tell me that people should be allowed to vote without proof of citizenship and photo identification is too much trouble. It isn't.

jamesrage · Aug 30, 2012

danarhea said:
I agree with this, and here is why:

1) A while back, I lost my driver's license, and had to get another one. In order to do so, I had to obtain my birth certificate, which cost me $25.00. Then my replacement license was another 10 bucks. If you don't have photo ID to begin with, then the cost is $16.00, which makes for a total of $41.00. OK, not that much money to me, but for someone who is poor, that is a barrier that he or she might not be able to hurdle. In essense, this amounts to a poll tax, which is a form of voter suppression.

2) Is photo ID a good idea? Yes, I think so. All Texas has to do is to make sure that the photo ID, as well as ALL underlying documents required to obtain it, is free of charge. Then there is nothing equivalent to a poll tax in the law, and the law would be constitutional.

Article is here.

IDs are cheap.There is no reason why someone shouldn't have one.You need an ID to get a job,you need an ID to buy alcohol and tobacco in many places even if you are over 21(some stores do not wish to take the chance of selling those products to minors). Many places you need an ID to use state services and apply for aid. An ID is not a hurdle to someone who is poor.

The idea that requiring someone to show an id is somehow a poll tax is laughable,even if the individual has to pay for their ID.

Federal court rejects Texas voter ID law

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