• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Study: States Over 4T in Debt

The Prof

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
12,828
Reaction score
1,808
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
America’s 50 states are collectively over $4 trillion in debt according to a new study by an independent, non-partisan think tank.

State Budget Solutions‘ third annual State Debt Report shows that aggregate state debt fell from $4.24 trillion last year to $4.19 trillion this year. State Budget Solutions’ debt calculations include a state’s regular debt, the fiscal year 2013 budget gap, outstanding unemployment trust fund loans, unfunded other post employment benefit liabilities, and the state’s unfunded pension liabilities.

California, again, led all states in total debt weighing in at $617 billion in unfunded liabilities. On a per capita basis, each Californian faces $16,386 in state debt compared to just $11,117 owed by each Texan. The top five states in total debt burden where California, New York, Texas, New Jersey and Ohio.

Unfunded pension liabilities are the main driver of state fiscal woes, accounting for $2.8 trillion of the shortfall. Other post employment benefits, including health care, account for another $627 billion in debt. California faces $398 billion in unfunded pension liabilities alone.

STUDY: States over $4 trillion in debt | WashingtonExaminer.com

obama depends on the uninformed voter outpolling americans who follow what's going on

unfortunately for our one term president, americans know

at the state level it's pensions

governors kasich, jindal, cuomo, christie, scott, daniels and others have taken real and substantial steps towards addressing this crisis

in contrast, moonbeam in california and quinn in illinois stand in the way

speaker madigan in springfield just last week deposited two $100,000 donations from the seiu after killing his state's reform

governor walker in wisconsin demonstrated real vision and courage, and he was rewarded by the traditionally progressive citizens of the badger state

the republican convention is gonna showcase many of these gubs, they are going to paint a dramatic contrast with the hopelessness and inaction of california, for example

obama's convention is gonna avoid these seismic questions and answers---instead he's gonna try to capitalize on the controversy coming out of missouri which is todd akin

as a result, charlotte will celebrate women's issues and causes, namely contraception and abortion

but after three nites of sandra fluke and naral and planned parenthood and every other face of feminist activism, his convention will appear almost to be promoting abortion, the more the merrier

you won't be hearing "safe, legal and rare," for instance

it's too late for obama to retreat, he's committed, charlotte will be one big abortion palooza

in economic times like these

the guy is a complete incompetent, no wonder the former editor of newsweek and nyt mag quotes bill clinton as calling him "an amateur"

try to see moves ahead

obama, by the way, is quite the extremist himself when it comes to choice

the state senator who usually voted present demonstrated rare leadership in springfield in opposition to the born alive act

he was prominent member of the sliver who opposed partial birth legislation

abortion extremism, anyone?

seeya at the polls, progressives
 
Lucky we don't have more states.
 
Wait ... now they're blaming Obama for what STATE governments are doing? :lol:
 
Wait ... now they're blaming Obama for what STATE governments are doing? :lol:

Where did you gather that?

California, again, led all states in total debt weighing in at $617 billion in unfunded liabilities. On a per capita basis, each Californian faces $16,386 in state debt.

Let's let the EU colonize California. They love each other already anyway, and can solve their problems together.
 
I wouldn't. Be we can surely blame his party.

I don't think that's quite fair, as California Republicans are far more liberal than Mississippi Democrats.

Also, don't forget that the state of California gets less in federal spending than it pays in federal taxes. This is a problem for all the states with large economies as they are essentially subsidizing less economically virile areas.
 
Wait ... now they're blaming Obama for what STATE governments are doing? :lol:

Everyone has to blame someone. No accountability. If something goes wrong it is someone else's fault. People blame local government, local government blames the state, state blames president, president blames previous president.
 
I don't think that's quite fair, as California Republicans are far more liberal than Mississippi Democrats.

Also, don't forget that the state of California gets less in federal spending than it pays in federal taxes. This is a problem for all the states with large economies as they are essentially subsidizing less economically virile areas.

At least here in Illinois, there is no question the issue stems from the party. Madigan and the Democrats have been enriching themselves and clutching to power for 25 years.

Although to be fair, when i say "Illinois" is corrupt that mostly translates to the Chicago area pols.....they are a fascinating bunch.
 
Unfunded mandates? :doh

You mean like the $180 billion that Obama sent to the states in the stimulus bill?

face-palm-300x300.jpg%3Fw%3D780
 
the s-word has long been obscene

Barack Obama's economic proposals: Just don't call it stimulus | The Economist

Obama's Next Economic Plan: Don't Call It a Stimulus - TIME

no politician interested in winning an election will be able to use it again for a generation

it is still sometimes surprising how completely uninformed are the voters upon whom obama depends

it was also quite refreshing tonite to hear governors kasich, walker, fallin, ayotte and chris christie lay out their real accomplishments, often with democrat support to get thru the legislature, relative to these 4+ trillion dollars of promises sure to be bankrupt without courageous and visionary leadership and action

as for unfunded mandates: STUDY: States over $4 trillion in debt | WashingtonExaminer.com
 
Wait ... now they're blaming Obama for what STATE governments are doing? :lol:

I know this isn't even a debate anymore, its facts vs. lies. Is the voter growing increasingly hostile toward candidates a direct result of citizens united?

Or is it the failure of public schools today due to lack of funding?

Religion suspends the use of critical thinking. Americas idiocy is compelling, but this future will be grim. I cannot remember a time one voters were so out of touch with the words that are spewed from their mouth. I had faith in America's youth, but they just wanted me to lose it for them. Otherwise they wouldn't harbor their stupidity combined with their inaccurate sense of self
 
Gee, imagine the fact that debt level seems to mostly follow population level, although Texas did fall behind New York which has a smaller population is not that much higher than Illinois, New Jersey and Ohio, although it has a significanlty higher population. Since this "study" includes future payouts for things like pensions, etc. What is the actual debt held by the individuals states? After all, more population means more state workers which means more pension and other related debts.

So lets take a look at other factors of states with populations over 10 million. California, Texas, Florida, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois and Ohio.

Hisotricl Political lean.
Democrat/Liberal
California, Illinois, New York, Pennsylvania

Swing
Ohio, Florida

Republican/conservative
Texas

Right to work states
Texas, Florida

Max Tax rates, personal and corporate
California-- personal 10.3, corp. 8.84
Florida-- personal n/a, corp 5.5
Illinois--personal 5, corp. 9.5
New York--personal 8.97, corp 7.1
Ohio-- perssonal 9.925, corp n/a
Pennsylvania--personal 3.7 corp. 9.99
Texas-- personal n/a, corp n/a

Economic performance rating (2011)
Texas (2)
Florida (8)
Pennsyvlnia (37)
New York (40)
California (46)
Illinois (48)
Ohio (49)

Debt per Capita
California (45)-$3,060
Florida (30)- $1,630
Illinois (36) - $2,234
New York (39) - $2,829
Pennsylvania (14) - $841
Ohio (24)- $ 1,465
Texas (29) - $1,568

Previous data extracted from https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq7g5Iy8vrrPdGpRTEdLaEYzNWhMem1uWmhmeGh2aWc&hl=en_US

Current Unemployment rates (July 2012) from our fine government of course
California (49)--10.7
Florida (39) --8.8
Illinois (40) --8.9
New York (43) --9.1
Ohio (19) -- 7.2
Pennsylvania (29) -- 7.9
Texas (19) -- 7.2

Best places to do business rankings (Another Triumph for Texas: Best/Worst States for Business 2012 | ChiefExecutive.net | Chief Executive Magazine)
California 50
Florida 2
Illinois 48
New York 49
Ohio 35
Pennsylvania 43
Texas 1

Without changes in laws, this pretty much tells us where most business, other than local small business are going to be or move to.

Yes, there is much more data, but I tried to limit it here for space and things not just, duh, they have more people items. Take a look at the data and come to your own conclusions, for economic performance, large liberal states really suck and the only large conservative state is doing ok, even with the national downturn/recession.
 
Gee, imagine the fact that debt level seems to mostly follow population level, although Texas did fall behind New York which has a smaller population is not that much higher than Illinois, New Jersey and Ohio, although it has a significanlty higher population. Since this "study" includes future payouts for things like pensions, etc. What is the actual debt held by the individuals states? After all, more population means more state workers which means more pension and other related debts.

Interesting post. Ya done good.

A L
 
Gee, imagine the fact that debt level seems to mostly follow population level, although Texas did fall behind New York which has a smaller population is not that much higher than Illinois, New Jersey and Ohio, although it has a significanlty higher population. Since this "study" includes future payouts for things like pensions, etc. What is the actual debt held by the individuals states? After all, more population means more state workers which means more pension and other related debts.

yes, it is most gratifying to encounter someone willing to do a little research before wasting the time of all the rest of us with their empty and bereft, agenda-driven opinions

the narcissism of those who think their platonic musings golden merely by virtue of the ideas being their own is insufferably matched only by the obfuscator-in-chief in love with his own voice

obama depends on the uninformed to put him over their top, they're too flaky to be relied upon

whereas the kind of people who read and watch and take note of daily developments are red hot and champing at the bit

69 days...

keep getting the word out, redouble your efforts NOW

no let up until he's GONE
 
STUDY: States over $4 trillion in debt | WashingtonExaminer.com

obama depends on the uninformed voter outpolling americans who follow what's going on

unfortunately for our one term president, americans know

at the state level it's pensions

governors kasich, jindal, cuomo, christie, scott, daniels and others have taken real and substantial steps towards addressing this crisis

in contrast, moonbeam in california and quinn in illinois stand in the way

speaker madigan in springfield just last week deposited two $100,000 donations from the seiu after killing his state's reform

governor walker in wisconsin demonstrated real vision and courage, and he was rewarded by the traditionally progressive citizens of the badger state

the republican convention is gonna showcase many of these gubs, they are going to paint a dramatic contrast with the hopelessness and inaction of california, for example

obama's convention is gonna avoid these seismic questions and answers---instead he's gonna try to capitalize on the controversy coming out of missouri which is todd akin

as a result, charlotte will celebrate women's issues and causes, namely contraception and abortion

but after three nites of sandra fluke and naral and planned parenthood and every other face of feminist activism, his convention will appear almost to be promoting abortion, the more the merrier

you won't be hearing "safe, legal and rare," for instance

it's too late for obama to retreat, he's committed, charlotte will be one big abortion palooza

in economic times like these

the guy is a complete incompetent, no wonder the former editor of newsweek and nyt mag quotes bill clinton as calling him "an amateur"

try to see moves ahead

obama, by the way, is quite the extremist himself when it comes to choice

the state senator who usually voted present demonstrated rare leadership in springfield in opposition to the born alive act

he was prominent member of the sliver who opposed partial birth legislation

abortion extremism, anyone?

seeya at the polls, progressives
whatever you are smoking, pass it around...
 
governor cuomo knows in dark blue new york

excerpts from his first state of the state:

"we have the worst business tax climate in the nation, period, our taxes are 66% higher than the national average"

"the costs of pensions are exploding... a 476% increase and its only getting worse"

"the state of new york spends too much money, it is that blunt and it is that simple"

"an unsustainable rate of growth and it has been for a long time"

"not only do we spend too much, but we get too little in return"

"the large government we have is all too often responsive to the special interests over the people"

"new yorkers are voting with their feet, two million new yorkers have left the state over the past decade"

"what does this say, it says we need radical reform, it says we need a new approach, we need a new perspective and we need it now"

"this is a fundamental realignment for the state"

"the old way wasn't working anyway, let's be honest"

"we want a government that puts the people first and not the special interests first"

"what made new york the empire state was a not a large government complex, it was a vibrant private sector that was creating great jobs"

"and that's what's going to make us the empire state again"

"at the heart of this state is business"

"we have to relearn the lesson our founders knew and we have to put up a sign that says new york is open for business, we get it, and this is going to be a business friendly state"

"we are going to have to confront the tax situation in our state, property taxes in this state are killing new yorkers, thirteen of the sixteen highest tax counties are in new york when assessed by home value"

"westchester county has the highest property taxes in the united states, nassau county has the second highest"

"it has to end, it has to end this year"

"we have to hold the line on taxes for now and reduce taxes in the future, new york has no future as the tax capital of the nation, our young people will not stay, our business will not come"

"put it simply, the people of this state simply cannot afford to pay any more taxes, period"

"we have to start with an emergency financial plan to stabilize our finances, we need to hold the line and we need to institute a wage freeze in the state of new york, we need to hold the line on taxes, we need a state spending cap and we need to close this $10 billion gap without any borrowing"

GOVERNOR ANDREW M. CUOMO STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS | Governor Andrew M. Cuomo

cuomo channels ronald reagan (without the smile)

and the results: Cuomo budget: $10 billion deficit cut, no new taxes, layoffs likely

what does cuomo know that obtuse obama and his completely uninformed marionettes don't?

ie, why would the governor of new york say and do such things?
 
Best places to do business rankings (Another Triumph for Texas: Best/Worst States for Business 2012 | ChiefExecutive.net | Chief Executive Magazine)
California 50
Florida 2
Illinois 48
New York 49
Ohio 35
Pennsylvania 43
Texas 1

Without changes in laws, this pretty much tells us where most business, other than local small business are going to be or move to.

Sure, why not. Texas is handing businesses government cheese to move there and pretty much lets them do whatever they want. Awesome for businesses ... for Texans ... not so much. Texas has the highest rate of people with no health insurance of any state (one out of four Texans is uninsured), some of the worst schools in the country.
 
Are those folks without health insurance US citizens?

A L
Surely no coincidence that the states with the lowest rates of insurance have some of the highest levels of immigrants (Texas, New Mexico, Florida, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, California)
 
Wait ... now they're blaming Obama for what STATE governments are doing? :lol:


Hah . . . . he get's the blame for doing nothing in the last 4 years. :mrgreen: Well except to add a trillion or 3 to the debt the taxpayer is going to have to pay.
 
Sure, why not. Texas is handing businesses government cheese to move there and pretty much lets them do whatever they want. Awesome for businesses ... for Texans ... not so much. Texas has the highest rate of people with no health insurance of any state (one out of four Texans is uninsured), some of the worst schools in the country.

Having jobs because businesses move there is not good for Texans?

Ok, so we have large numbers without healthcare insurance, but why? Texas does have a lower average wage than some other states, but it also has a lower cost of living. So no, they cannot always afford the rates that national companies charge for policies. But that is not a problem isolated in Texas, it is affecting the US also. There is much discussion elsewhere about the healthcare issue. I have always taken the stance that the biggest cost factor in healthcare was forcing healthcare companies to take the uninsured instead of the uninsured going to free clinics, charity and community hospitals. Without that added costs, healthcare would be far more affordable and less would be uninsured. Debate that all you want, but that is for a healthcare thread, not a debt thread. Although, Medicaid is a major portion of the budget and cause of some of that debt, our state actually lowered the amounts payable for medicaid to help the budget last year.

The worst schools? Really. Report Card on American Education | ALEC – American Legislative Exchange Council
California--30
Florida--12
Illinois--28
New York--10
Ohio--21
Pennsylvania--5
Texas--11

Illiteracy Rates Illiteracy rate by US state
California--23%
Florida--20%
Illinois--13%
New York--22%
Ohio--9%
Pennsylvania--13%
Texas--19%

While Texas is not the top performer for education in the US, it is very clear that they are not at the bottom either. Three of these states, California, Texas and Florida all have large immigrant populations. Texas and California are of course border states which undoubtedly affects their literacy rates. The data simply does not support your assertion that Texas has some of the worst schools in the nation, according to the rankings, it is actually doing pretty darned good.

Thank you for bringing that up, so now we have examples of how conservationism (or at least the Texas version of it) and liberalism work on a fairly large scale for education. Not exactly the results that the liberal mantra of conservative states having bad education systems was looking for, is it.

Any more stereotypical liberal stances about Texas you want to bring up?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom