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Thread: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

  1. #191
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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Actually, it's a $7,500 federal tax credit.

    Which I think is especially pathetic on the Volt since the average household income of people who buy one is over $170K per year.

    That means lower and middle income Americans are basically paying richer ones to help them buy a Chevrolet Volt.

    And now that pathetic POTUS Obama wants to raise that to $10K.

    'Obama hikes subsidy to wealthy electric car buyers'


    Read more: Obama hikes subsidy to wealthy electric car buyers | The Daily Caller
    I don't care if I get wealthy in life or if I stay middle class I'm not interested in paying more money for less value, which is basically where hybrids and electrics stand. It is telling that subsidies have to be around a fourth of the car's value just to keep it on life support. Even then if this car had been anything else it would have been flushed by now.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  2. #192
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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    All that being said, however, to look at this dilemma with a five-year outlook vs. a fifty-year outlook will necessarily yield very different results. Fifty years from now, we are going to have higher seas, we are going to have very expensive gas, we are going to have even more people on this planet than we do now. Green energy isn't just about saving the environment--there is a real, legitimate, long-term economic interest in obtaining them.
    There is not one green anything that can compete in price against our natural resources. To your 50 yr outlook, instead lets look out 500 yrs, we have enough natural gas and coal to last a thousand yrs. And it cheap. All our electrical plants are fueled by natural gas or coal. We've never had a shortage of electricity. All wind and solar does is make more electricity, it does not save one drop of oil. The only reason we have any green at all is because our government is taking tax payer money to subsidize the building or subsidize the buyer. Without the government dumping billions into green there would be none, why, because it is not competitive. Dumping billion into green is the biggest waste of money ever.

    T Boone lost millions on wind, he gave it up and is now preaching natural gas, of which is cheaper than ever, and is in large supply.

    Now I am not against green, but making more electricity is not the answer, the real problem is a substitute for oil. That is where some dollars need to go is into research replacing oil. Look at what oil does, it fuels our planes, trucks, heavy equipment, ships, trains, cars etc, the challenge is to replace oil with a substitute. Electricity is not it.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
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  3. #193
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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Actually, it's a $7,500 federal tax credit.

    Which I think is especially pathetic on the Volt since the average household income of people who buy one is over $170K per year.

    That means lower and middle income Americans are basically paying richer ones to help them buy a Chevrolet Volt.

    And now that pathetic POTUS Obama wants to raise that to $10K.

    'Obama hikes subsidy to wealthy electric car buyers'

    ...'The new subsidy level represents a 33 percent jump from the current $7,500 government payout for each Volt buyer, even though the Volt’s buyers are already among the wealthiest Americans.'...

    Read more: Obama hikes subsidy to wealthy electric car buyers | The Daily Caller
    The true facts are, without government subsidy there would be no green anything. Obama is pouring billions down a rat hole, to promote green that cannot compete in price against natural gas or coal. T Boone lost millions on wind and is now backing natural gas.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

  4. #194
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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Now I am not against green, but making more electricity is not the answer, the real problem is a substitute for oil. That is where some dollars need to go is into research replacing oil. Look at what oil does, it fuels our planes, trucks, heavy equipment, ships, trains, cars etc, the challenge is to replace oil with a substitute. Electricity is not it.
    We can make methane, Storing green electricity as natural gas - Press Release May 5 2010
    And from what I have heard, once we can make one hydrocarbon, we can make others.

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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    We can make methane, Storing green electricity as natural gas - Press Release May 5 2010
    And from what I have heard, once we can make one hydrocarbon, we can make others.
    To me that makes no sense at all. Why would you want to use expensive bird killing windmills to generate electricity so as to convert it to natural gas,when you already have hundreds of years of NG there for the taking?

    Carrying this a step further, no need for the windmills. We could just use our abundant resources of NG to make electricity in order to convert it to NG to make electricity.

  6. #196
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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    I can see that your perceptions are alive and well!
    I was suggesting you were painting with too broad of a brush.
    There are plenty of small minded people on both the conservative and liberal sides.
    They are the ones who want to limit peoples freedoms, (In the name of their holy cause of course).
    People buy vehicles within their ability, and based on their needs, a compromise of features.
    If the volt does not fit into the equation (even with the tax credit) it will fail.
    No Hate, no desire, just simple economics.
    Macroeconomics and microeconomics do not often share the same needs. Remember that.
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  7. #197
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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    There is not one green anything that can compete in price against our natural resources. To your 50 yr outlook, instead lets look out 500 yrs, we have enough natural gas and coal to last a thousand yrs. And it cheap. All our electrical plants are fueled by natural gas or coal. We've never had a shortage of electricity. All wind and solar does is make more electricity, it does not save one drop of oil. The only reason we have any green at all is because our government is taking tax payer money to subsidize the building or subsidize the buyer. Without the government dumping billions into green there would be none, why, because it is not competitive. Dumping billion into green is the biggest waste of money ever.

    T Boone lost millions on wind, he gave it up and is now preaching natural gas, of which is cheaper than ever, and is in large supply.

    Now I am not against green, but making more electricity is not the answer, the real problem is a substitute for oil. That is where some dollars need to go is into research replacing oil. Look at what oil does, it fuels our planes, trucks, heavy equipment, ships, trains, cars etc, the challenge is to replace oil with a substitute. Electricity is not it.
    1. Sorry, but that is not true. Wind is becoming progressively cheaper, and in fact in some places in America, it has nearly achieved cost-competitiveness with coal. Furthermore, the evolution of energy-storing technology has made it more cost-feasible to smooth out the inevitable bumps and dips in power as the wind comes and goes.

    2. If we had that kind of mindset fifty years ago, we would have never invested in technologies that improved our lives. The space program, the Interstate Highway system, the Internet, etc., might have never come about. And keep in mind that all three of these are a direct result of the federal government.

    3. Coal power is, by far, the single biggest producer of serious atmospheric pollutants such as arsenic, mercury, lead, etc. Big Coal conveniently leaves these externalities out of the discussion when trumpeting its "cost-competitiveness," which is simply dishonest. Externalities are just as important to a society as profits and losses are, maybe more.
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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    We can make methane, Storing green electricity as natural gas - Press Release May 5 2010
    And from what I have heard, once we can make one hydrocarbon, we can make others.
    Methane definitely has potential, but unfortunately it tends to be more volatile than standard petroleum products, right now it's a safety issue much like hydrogen. If they can get storage to around the same safety as gasoline, diesel, and kerosene I say go for it.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #199
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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    While the government is not as yet actually forcing me to buy one, they are getting close. For starters, I am forced through taxes to finance other peoples purchases. I am also forced to purchase corn whiskey to feed my vehicles, and yes, it is shoved down my throat. Forced to use a light bulb I hate, Forced to pay subsidies to windmills I don't want. It's a long list.

    There is a reason I don't purchase a hybrid. I don't want one of the dam things. Nor do I want to pay for those that do. That should be enough reason.
    Well, if you look at it that way, a lot of us are getting something shoved down our throat. As long as we buy oil from Saudi Arabia some of that money gets filtered down to terrorists. But nobody asks me, I have to pay for that, and ultimately pay for the weapons that are killing our troops in field. That ****ing pisses me the **** off to no end. I don't want the yearly $4 Billion subsidy paid out to oil companies, but I get no choice in the matter. Depending on who you ask, oil companies get anywhere $14 Billion to $71 Billion in tax breaks every year. If you take the LOW average of this it works out equal the profits the oil industry makes. I think the industry should make a profit on it's own merit, not just handed to them. But I get no choice on this; it's just shoved down my throat. When people got tax breaks for buying a HumVee, I didn't want one, but my tax money helped pay for those who did. "The list is long." We don't live in paradise so we aren't all going to get everything just way we want it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Well, if you bought a Volt there's a 5k subsidy(your tax money back, along with that of others), if you don't people are constantly reminding you that nothing is going to be one about the fuel price problem and you could end up "going broke driving a traditional vehicle". Doesn't sound like people are exactly leaving the issue alone.
    I'll tell you what I tell everybody else, if a Volt or an EV isn't right for you, don't buy one. The silence from your wallet will tell the auto industry they need to improve the product. And you won't go broke driving a conventional vehicle, now. That's hyperbole and everybody knows it. If anyone tries to "force" you to by an EV, tell them to **** off for you, and give them another **** off from me. That kind of behavior is bull****. No one should knock you, in all seriousness, for your car choice. Likewise, anyone buying a Volt shouldn't be knocked or belittled for their choice.
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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Methane definitely has potential, but unfortunately it tends to be more volatile than standard petroleum products, right now it's a safety issue much like hydrogen. If they can get storage to around the same safety as gasoline, diesel, and kerosene I say go for it.
    I am thinking they actually make the diesel and gasoline from the natural gas (or synthetic natural gas).
    Banks Power | Synthetic Diesel Fuel
    Making Liquid Fuels From Natural Gas: A Technological Challenge Of The Twenty First Century
    We already know how to store them!

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