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Thread: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

  1. #121
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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    But that is the point. Which is why I stated energy, not oil specifically. Point is, virtually all our energy resources are tied up in one way or another. with the exceptions of those perceived as "green". Those, we subsidize while lobbying for ending subsidies on energy production. It takes decades to bring a nuclear plant on line, if at all. Obama issues a permit for a pipeline from La to Ok and than states that he has opened the line from Canada to La.

    The US is blessed with 3 major sources of energy, fossil, meaning coal and oil, ng, and nuclear, to to a lesser extent water. Most of the water resources have been utilized. More than enough to provide our needs for decades, maybe even while we do find a suitable alternative. These three are virtually at a standstill, the exception being the resources on private land, which apparently the greenies have not yet figured out a way to stop.

    The argument that opening new supply lines does not decrease prices is contrary to what I learned in economics 101. Simply, if you have one barrel of oil, and 2 people want it, the oil goes to the highest bidder. Put 2 more barrels into the mix, and the bidding war shifts to the seller. It doesn't matter whether the barrels and bidders are located in Tennessee or Bangladesh, or both. I don't understand the argument that we are in a world market, which is stating the obvious, and arguing that since this so, that increased production anywhere will not alter the equation. Once again, if the world markets require a billion barrels of oil, and 900 million are produced, the oil goes to the highest bidder. If the production increases to 1.1 billion, then the sellers do the bidding.
    Oil was a dollar a barrel when we were self-sufficent. QED. And getting oil online is a lot quicker when competing oil companies are interested in production rather than monopolistic hoarding. Some of the easiest to drill territories are closed off from production.
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  2. #122
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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    I've always had trouble figuring out why conservatives hate clean energy. It's like they WANTED the Volt to fail.

    If anyone could explain any logic and not rhetoric behind this, I'm all ears.
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  3. #123
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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I've always had trouble figuring out why conservatives hate clean energy. It's like they WANTED the Volt to fail.

    If anyone could explain any logic and not rhetoric behind this, I'm all ears.
    The simple answer is, most people (even liberals) don't like to be force fed.
    Our nanny state has taken up the liberal man's burden, to show the poor unenlightened how
    they should live their lives, what they can drive, what they can eat, where they can smoke,...ect.
    In the name of freedom, they are limiting peoples freedom to choose.

    If and I say if the volt fails, it will not be because someone wanted it to fail, but because of poor planning
    that brought a product to market with a cost of goods sold higher than it's market value.
    Last edited by longview; 08-29-12 at 02:40 PM.

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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    The simple answer is, most people (even liberals) don't like to be force fed.
    Our nanny state has taken up the liberal man's burden, to show the poor unenlightened how
    they should live their lives, what they can drive, what they can eat, where they can smoke,...ect.
    In the name of freedom, they are limiting peoples freedom to choose.
    I said "logic and not rhetoric." Do you have any here?
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    It does seem that way, but there is no reason a hybrid could not be a big 4X4 truck with lots of
    giddy-up. A hybrid could also be an incredible sports car with all wheel drive and full low end torque.
    If done right, we would have to rethink all of the conventional wisdom about cars.
    I'd really like to have this Mini. This has motors in each wheel. This is doing it right.

    A British engineering firm has put together a high-performance hybrid version of BMW's Mini Cooper. The PML Mini QED has a top speed of 150 mph, a 0-60 mph time of 4.5 seconds. The car uses a small gasoline engine with four 160 horsepower electric motors — one on each wheel. The car has been designed to run for four hours of combined urban/extra urban driving, powered only by a battery and bank of ultra capacitors. The QED supports an all-electric range of 200-250 miles and has a total range of about 932 miles (1,500 km).
    http://www.treehugger.com/cars/elect...ts-wheels.html
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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I said "logic and not rhetoric." Do you have any here?
    Sorry, your original statement
    "I've always had trouble figuring out why conservatives hate clean energy. It's like they WANTED the Volt to fail."
    you used rhetorical words like hate and wanted.
    I don't think many actually hate clean energy, or want dirty water or air. That is just election speak.
    I am not sure you can answer a question based on emotion with logic.
    Many people find it offensive to be told they have to change how they do things.

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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I've always had trouble figuring out why conservatives hate clean energy. It's like they WANTED the Volt to fail.

    If anyone could explain any logic and not rhetoric behind this, I'm all ears.
    Hybrids are not clean energy. Neither are electric cars. Try again.
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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Current nuclear construction times are far shorter than that (bold is mine).
    Economics of new nuclear power plants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Sorry, but oil prices are determined on the intl market. More drilling in the US will have little effect on gas prices.

    Oil Prices Are Determined in the World Market: It's Not Just Something That President Obama Says | Beat the Press

    And here's 20 experts that will tell you more domestic oil drilling will not help:


    20 Experts Who Say Drilling Won't Lower Gas Prices | ThinkProgress
    (1) I'll concede that at least on paper, restrictions on nuclear have been eased. A few have been approved. No new or expanded are as yet on line as far as I know.
    Time will tell whether other restrictions will be put in place, or whether we are looking at an example similar to the Canada La pipeline. I hope you are right.

    (2) I never said that we are not part of the worldwide energy market. Thatwe are is true. What is not true is the notion that because we are now a part of the world market that increasing supply will not lower costs. If, somehow we did increase energy output (not necessarily oil) to the point that US prices were so low that other world suppliers would no longer sell us energy, would that not indicate that we have won the decades old quest to make ourselves energy independent? Let France and Japan buy their energy from the mideast at $100 a barrel, while we are paying $50, and watch the jobs return home. If, due to low prices we become a supplier to the rest of the world, then the market would tend to level out, but at a price lower than the present prices. That's how the market works. If we do produce more than we can use, why is that a bad thing? The only possible reason that then the "alternate" market would fall on its face. Already, NG prices have fallen to the point that some nuclear projects have been postponed as being non economical.

    The bolded statement just makes no sense. Of course, if new drilling produces more product, it will increase world supplies, which will drive prices down. How much depends on the increase in world supply and demand.

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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    I'd really like to have this Mini. This has motors in each wheel. This is doing it right.


    Electric Mini: 0-60 in 4 Seconds: It Has Motors In Its Wheels : TreeHugger
    WOW! it is amazing they can keep the wheels on the ground.

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    Re: GM Suspending Chevy Volt Output Due To Slow Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I've always had trouble figuring out why conservatives hate clean energy.
    It's not a hatred of it, most of them are not viable replacements as they stand. When the technologies catch up and perform better sure they'll be accepted but they are woefully inefficient. Couple of things that are problems right now 1) Clean energy has to be subsidized to stay on the market because it doesn't have a large share and for it's costs the return isn't preferable 2) Hybrids have been shown through studies to put out higher levels of pollutants such as lithium dust which can threaten water tables and effect toxin levels in runoff. 3) Hybrids have a lousy return of initial price at the backend due to the price of a new battery and maintenence of the braking systems. 4) It's hard to get a mechanic to work on a hybrid and 5) Electric cars are insufficient for extended travel.
    It's like they WANTED the Volt to fail.
    It was a certainty, as I stated earlier the Volt was originally conceptualized around '07 during the Bush administration and I knew it was a bad idea then. The concept was better than the released version(That's usual) but even the concept was woefully lacking in everything but looks. There's nothing political in my statements against that car but rather I love the GM brand and was concerned that they were gonna eat that turkey.
    If anyone could explain any logic and not rhetoric behind this, I'm all ears.
    Once tech catches up the market will embrace alternatives, till then it is wasteful to subsidize less productive alternatives and economically damaging. I think there is a better way, first I'd like to see magnetic motors be more thouroughly researced, they can theoretically produce the torque and power required to replace FF powerplants, and if done right can have multiple times the range, they are incredibly efficient. As well I would love to see hydrogen tech take off as I think that has great potential, but wind, solar, electrical, and hybrid are just not there.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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