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17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on party

Who was the last invader to successfully take over and positively control Afghanistan?

We didn't go to Afghan to invade and control, we went there to destroy Alquiada training camps and bring down the Taliban government that let Alquiada train there. Then we got involved in nation building which I disagree with. After we ran osama out and killed half the Taliban leaders we should have left with the admonition that, if you let Alquiada back, we will be back.
 
Do you have anything else any other source? Because i honestly dont have time to read a whole book.

I think I begin to see the source of your problem...
 
Many who see a global threat by the Soviet during the 80's fail to understand Empire creep. The Brits didn't occupy most the world because they had some wide eyed desire to rule the world, but rather to protect the gems of it's Empire and the trade routes to and from.

The Soviets didn't want Afghanistan to be a step closer to the Gulf, it is a blind alley no one has ever controlled. The Soviets were fracturing internally as many of the ethnic groups in the Soviet were weary of a distant overlord who's dismissal of their culture, insertion of Russian settlers, and lack of even basic consumer goods were beginning to see the West was a land of plenty where even the poorest citizen lived amazing lives.

The Soviets were not bent on world domination but rather hanging onto what they already had. A communist government on their 'Stan' border was in trouble. If Soviet failed to support them the Communist hardliners in the Kremlin worried the rest of their Stans would take that as a sign of weakness and revolt.

But not just there, in the Warsaw Pact Poland formed it's Solidarity Union in 1980. While the collapse of the Warsaw Pact startled everyone in the West to include the CIA , it didn't happen overnite and started way before 1980. If the Warsaw Pact nations saw the Kremlin as weak the buffer zone and economic exploitation area would be lost, no Soviet leader could stand that thought, or most likely survive.

So like it or not the Soviet Union was bound to the fate of a small communist party in so backwater a nation sunshine takes an extra day to get there.

(like the USofA and the Domino Theory being drawn into a land war in Asia)

I know it is an article of Faith among some that even today the Roosians are plotting to take over the world so we must spend whatever amount of money on whatever hair brained scheme the 'experts' can come up with... but what drove the Russians to cross into Afghanistan was saving face, not world domination.
 
We didn't go to Afghan to invade and control, we went there to destroy Alquiada training camps and bring down the Taliban government that let Alquiada train there. Then we got involved in nation building which I disagree with. After we ran osama out and killed half the Taliban leaders we should have left with the admonition that, if you let Alquiada back, we will be back.

If we didn't go there to invade and control it, then why did we go there, invade, change their government and control it?
 
If we didn't go there to invade and control it, then why did we go there, invade, change their government and control it?

The Taliban government was harboring terrorists who had committed an act of war on our soil. We went there to kill the terrorists and destroy the government that allowed them to flourish. We stayed to try to leave a society that would not endanger us, but we have failed because there seems to be no way to civilize those monkeys; the only answer may well be to turn the country into a glowing glass parking lot.
 
The Taliban government was harboring terrorists who had committed an act of war on our soil. We went there to kill the terrorists and destroy the government that allowed them to flourish. We stayed to try to leave a society that would not endanger us, but we have failed because there seems to be no way to civilize those monkeys; the only answer may well be to turn the country into a glowing glass parking lot.

I say we just leave. If they come here, we kill them when they get here. If they stay there...fine.
 
I say we just leave. If they come here, we kill them when they get here. If they stay there...fine.

That was the Clinton-era philosophy that gave us 9/11.
 
That was the Clinton-era philosophy that gave us 9/11.

Just because you don't see the blood on American streets, Americans are dying over there. More than the amount dying here. We toppled their government, we killed everyone we could think of, let's leave.
 
I can't believe some of the things I'm reading. We can't just nuke them. Let's be realistic. And we'll never kill all the terrorists. We should get our people out of there and keep a close eye on them and hope that our intelligence gathering has improved since 9/11. We can't stay there forever.
 
Just because you don't see the blood on American streets, Americans are dying over there. More than the amount dying here. We toppled their government, we killed everyone we could think of, let's leave.

As long as Americans are dying over there, we clearly haven't killed enough of them.
 
I can't believe some of the things I'm reading. We can't just nuke them. Let's be realistic. And we'll never kill all the terrorists. We should get our people out of there and keep a close eye on them and hope that our intelligence gathering has improved since 9/11. We can't stay there forever.

Our intelligence gathering has suffered since 9/11 since we can no longer use enhanced interrogation. In fact, our intelligence gathering has been going downhill since the Church commission back in the seventies decided that we should no longer associate with unsavory characters; that pushed us into remote sensing type intelligence, using satellites and drones, and it just isn't as good as it should be without human intelligence gathering.
 
Our intelligence gathering has suffered since 9/11 since we can no longer use enhanced interrogation. In fact, our intelligence gathering has been going downhill since the Church commission back in the seventies decided that we should no longer associate with unsavory characters; that pushed us into remote sensing type intelligence, using satellites and drones, and it just isn't as good as it should be without human intelligence gathering.

Okay, but we still can't stay there forever trying to get ALL the terrorists. It's unrealistic IMO. I think that place is lost cause and we should just get the heck out.
 
I can't believe some of the things I'm reading. We can't just nuke them. Let's be realistic. And we'll never kill all the terrorists. We should get our people out of there and keep a close eye on them and hope that our intelligence gathering has improved since 9/11. We can't stay there forever.
Why not nuke em? Kill everyone there. We dont have to kill all the terrorists just scare the hell out of their supporters else where.
 
Why not nuke em? Kill everyone there. We dont have to kill all the terrorists just scare the hell out of their supporters else where.

That will never happen.
 
As long as Americans are dying over there, we clearly haven't killed enough of them.

I've got a bit of an anecdote for you sir.

I once was putting on my shoes to go about my daily routine when I saw a pebble in my shoe. I stuck my hand in the shoe only to find web interfering with my quest to remove the pebble. I dismissed it at first, but upon further review, a black widow had decided my shoe to be somehow inhabitable. I'm not fond of dying at a young age. I also don't want to spend my day in a hospital trying to remedy poisoning. It caused quite the stir in my head and scarred me. I upped my shoe checking habits tenfold. For months I didn't feel safe putting on a shoe without a full inspection. But at some point I had to drop the act. There's not always going to be a black widow in my shoe. Its something that only happens successfully under a bevy of permitting circumstances. So eventually, I stopped checking my shoes so thoroughly and got on with my life.

The moral of the story here is that things like 9/11 and Pearl Harbor are going to happen. And while we should take a lesson from those events, we can't spend the rest of our years as a nation in paranoia. As much as I'd love to, I'll never kill every black widow on the face of this earth. Likewise, we're never going to catch every terrorist or all who wish us harm. We probably won't be successful in reforming Afganistan as we'd like. We can still check our shoe and probably will from now on, but we can't live in fear forever. We need to keep vigilant, but we also need to realize that fear, at large, is an illusion. That being said, we can only act upon fear so much without harming ourselves.
 
I've got a bit of an anecdote for you sir.

I once was putting on my shoes to go about my daily routine when I saw a pebble in my shoe. I stuck my hand in the shoe only to find web interfering with my quest to remove the pebble. I dismissed it at first, but upon further review, a black widow had decided my shoe to be somehow inhabitable. I'm not fond of dying at a young age. I also don't want to spend my day in a hospital trying to remedy poisoning. It caused quite the stir in my head and scarred me. I upped my shoe checking habits tenfold. For months I didn't feel safe putting on a shoe without a full inspection. But at some point I had to drop the act. There's not always going to be a black widow in my shoe. Its something that only happens successfully under a bevy of permitting circumstances. So eventually, I stopped checking my shoes so thoroughly and got on with my life.

The moral of the story here is that things like 9/11 and Pearl Harbor are going to happen. And while we should take a lesson from those events, we can't spend the rest of our years as a nation in paranoia. As much as I'd love to, I'll never kill every black widow on the face of this earth. Likewise, we're never going to catch every terrorist or all who wish us harm. We probably won't be successful in reforming Afganistan as we'd like. We can still check our shoe and probably will from now on, but we can't live in fear forever. We need to keep vigilant, but we also need to realize that fear, at large, is an illusion. That being said, we can only act upon fear so much without harming ourselves.

When I camp in the desert I always look for scorpions in a shoe before I put it on and I keep my eyes open for rattle snakes when I am out hiking in those shoes. That isn't paranoia it is common sense. The desert has snakes and scorpions as the planet has terrorist, it is wise on both counts to keep an eye out for them.
 
Wise to keep an eye out for threats, piss poor policy to spent the family into ruin by attempting to kill every snake or scorpion in the desert.

Another poster is of the opinion as long as Americans continue to die overthere we have not killed enough of 'them'.

How warped is that? We should have learned by now that trying to enforce our opinion on the world with military force will always have blow-back and cause deaths to our troops, do it enough and we have 9-11's.
 
Wise to keep an eye out for threats, piss poor policy to spent the family into ruin by attempting to kill every snake or scorpion in the desert.

Another poster is of the opinion as long as Americans continue to die overthere we have not killed enough of 'them'.

How warped is that? We should have learned by now that trying to enforce our opinion on the world with military force will always have blow-back and cause deaths to our troops, do it enough and we have 9-11's.

Snakes and scorpions are not inherently evil, they serve a vital function in nature whereas terrorist are inherently evil and wiping them out would be a good thing.
 
One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter, or don't you remember how much support the IRA got from US Citizens?
 
Or how about those pesky Revolutionists in North America...circa 1776?

I don't recall any atrocities committed by "those pesky Revolutionists in North America" and the Islamist terrorists haven't brought freedom to any people I've ever heard of.
 
Diogenes-
You REALLY need to go learn about our Revolution in the South- brutal, vicious, no quarter offered to man or woman as long standing feuds were settled under the guise of fighting the War.

Of course you skip right over the IRA and other 'Christian' Terrorist groups....

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter...
 
Diogenes-
You REALLY need to go learn about our Revolution in the South- brutal, vicious, no quarter offered to man or woman as long standing feuds were settled under the guise of fighting the War.

Of course you skip right over the IRA and other 'Christian' Terrorist groups....

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter...

So Alquiada and the Taliban are now freedom fighters huh. They cut off heads of people they catch singing and dancing, shoot classrooms full of little girls and they blow up anybody and everybody that is not their exact form of wahabbi Islam. Who's freedom are they fighting for exactly?
 
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