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Thread: 17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on party

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    Re: 17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on party

    I explained the concept to Sawyer, is the best I can do. YOUR standard of freedom isn't universal.

    Now answer this
    The IRA- terrorists or freedom fighters and does allowing so many US citizens to openly support bombers, murderers and thieves mean we supported terrorism or freedom so close to our long time ally England?

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    Re: 17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on party

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post

    You suffer from Imperial Hubris

    ....and you suffer from a politically correct form of cultural self-loathing.

    At the end of the day, however, the both of you are far more similar than you are different since your extreme dogmatism is of a nature that is long on conformity and short on independence.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: 17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on party

    Gunner-
    it is my hope that once we leave Afghanistan a more moderate system of governance will prevail. It won't be western democracy by any means, but hopefully enough years have past since the Roosian invasion that over armed warlords are reduced in power, and theocratic organizations are not so old school.

    One thing for sure, the decade, lives and money we spent in Afghanistan will not return our investment well. But no place in Afghanistan's history has western intervention ever paid off, or for that matter really changed their progress to the better.

    One other thing, we could stay in Afghanistan for another decade, bomb and drone strike the crap out of it and where ever in Pakistan we think 'they' are hiding and the end result will be so similar to right now it would make grown men cry. (especially the fathers who's sons died in the process of 'westernizing' Afghanistan)

    I do hope for something other than extreme thugs who use a warped version of a Faith to dominate a society will prevail in Afghanistan-

    Just think the Taliwhackers would have been deposed by now anyway, Afghanistan doesn't seem to tolerate any leader for very long.

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    Re: 17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on party

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Gunner-
    it is my hope that once we leave Afghanistan a more moderate system of governance will prevail. It won't be western democracy by any means, but hopefully enough years have past since the Roosian invasion that over armed warlords are reduced in power, and theocratic organizations are not so old school.

    One thing for sure, the decade, lives and money we spent in Afghanistan will not return our investment well. But no place in Afghanistan's history has western intervention ever paid off, or for that matter really changed their progress to the better.

    One other thing, we could stay in Afghanistan for another decade, bomb and drone strike the crap out of it and where ever in Pakistan we think 'they' are hiding and the end result will be so similar to right now it would make grown men cry. (especially the fathers who's sons died in the process of 'westernizing' Afghanistan)

    I do hope for something other than extreme thugs who use a warped version of a Faith to dominate a society will prevail in Afghanistan-

    Just think the Taliwhackers would have been deposed by now anyway, Afghanistan doesn't seem to tolerate any leader for very long.
    I was in favour of the Afghanistan campaign and viewed it very different from Iraq. If they never took their eye of the ball, and pulled most of the resources, we would most probably be home by now. I fully agree our definition 'of what Afghanistan should look like,' is very different from what many envisaged (though I feel that expectation has subdued some what). The Taliban drove an already disparate-Tribal-society to a new level of barbarism. If left unchecked? That is the million dollar question, but I feel it would have remained a launch base for OBL jihadi fighter's.

    Because of early policy failures (man-power/ resources/infrastructure) then our sacrifices are hard to stomach. The recent spate of Blue on Green are a reminder of how potent (as an insurgency force) the Taliban remain. As you rightly point out NO foreign power has truly conquered Afghanistan, but if the correct policy at the early stages had been implemented who knows what could have been accomplished?

    Paul
    RIP THE EUROPEAN FORUM 2016

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    Re: 17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on party

    Gunner-
    I take a different, more cynical view. We could have sat with whatever level of troops we could muster in Afghanistan and still be no further down the democracy road. Not farther down the stable society road. No farther down the women are people too road.

    Smack the crap out of the taliwhackers for harboring al-Queera I can see, revenge and harsh punishment is ingrained deeply in our western culture, especially when the bad guy doesn't look or act much like us. Rip the country a new one from top to bottom. Show every warlord to shepard just how powerful the taliwhackers really are and how easily the USofA can stomp a mudhole in them.

    My thought, after seeing just how quickly the Talis cut and run, the warlords who accepted the ass bites so easily will not a second time around. I sort of like notching the tree and letting the first strong wind do the work when it comes to 'fixing' other nations.

    Far fewer US lives lost, and billions not spent.

    Now when Afghans attack coalition forces. I'd hesitate to call them all Taliban, anymore than a white guy shooting a black guy is a KKK incident. Personal slights, grudges, and local warlord agitation could have far more to do with a disgruntled trainee shooting our troops. My take is even if the Taliban was beat down and out, rivalries between warlords and their disdain for a central government would have a violent, easy to use base for shadow warriors/terrorists/drug traffickers.

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    Re: 17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on party

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I explained the concept to Sawyer, is the best I can do. YOUR standard of freedom isn't universal.

    Now answer this
    The IRA- terrorists or freedom fighters and does allowing so many US citizens to openly support bombers, murderers and thieves mean we supported terrorism or freedom so close to our long time ally England?
    I really don't see how you can compare the IRA to Alquiada or the taliban. The IRA was a terrorist organization but they were about getting the UK out of Ireland so they could have self rule. The taliban wants the US out of Afghanistan not for self rule but so they can oppress the people of Afghanistan, I see no freedom fighter comparison there. Alquiada pretty much wants America out of existence because they detest everything we stand for and in their wack job minds they have a world domination fantasy . They would like to see Wahabbiisim rule the world, I see no freedom fighter comparison there.

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    Re: 17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on party

    Your peeling the onion, the Irish terrorists bombed, and murdered innocent civilians to make themselves the political leaders of Ireland. Many US citizens and politicians were quite vocal in their support of these murderers. In Western Civilization murdering innocent civilians and your political rivals isn't justifiable at all. England isn't the taliban, killing civilians wasn't called for at any time in Ireland.

    Nice try...

    al_queera wants us out of the Middle East, only a few whack jobs in the West think they won't stop until they 'destroy' us. (whack job is an intellectually weak slur to throw at those who want to fight us, no need to call al-queera whack jobs)

    If al-queera REALLY wanted extreme Islam spread across the world they sure suck at convincing 1.2 billion or so fellow Mooslims. Epic logic fail.

    taliwhacker want the US out of Afghanistan so they can continue their rule, same as the Scottish kings kept wanting the English out of Scotland, not to free all scots but to be able to rule them.

    You use 'freedom fighter' in way too narrow a definition. Freedom from outside interference... THAT freedom is universal...

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    Re: 17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on party

    The middle East is a disturbing place. Have you seen this video? IF not watch it but be warned, its kinda graphic.


    Moderator's Warning:
    17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on partyLink has been removed due to graphic nature.
    Last edited by Serenity; 09-05-12 at 10:14 PM. Reason: Link removed

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    Re: 17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on party

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Your peeling the onion, the Irish terrorists bombed, and murdered innocent civilians to make themselves the political leaders of Ireland. Many US citizens and politicians were quite vocal in their support of these murderers. In Western Civilization murdering innocent civilians and your political rivals isn't justifiable at all. England isn't the taliban, killing civilians wasn't called for at any time in Ireland.

    Nice try...

    al_queera wants us out of the Middle East, only a few whack jobs in the West think they won't stop until they 'destroy' us. (whack job is an intellectually weak slur to throw at those who want to fight us, no need to call al-queera whack jobs)

    If al-queera REALLY wanted extreme Islam spread across the world they sure suck at convincing 1.2 billion or so fellow Mooslims. Epic logic fail.

    taliwhacker want the US out of Afghanistan so they can continue their rule, same as the Scottish kings kept wanting the English out of Scotland, not to free all scots but to be able to rule them.

    You use 'freedom fighter' in way too narrow a definition. Freedom from outside interference... THAT freedom is universal...
    By your definition Hitler was a freedom fighter, he just wanted the freedom to rule Europe.

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    Re: 17 Afghans beheaded in insurgent attack on party

    Now your just being absurd.

    Taliwhackers don't want to rule all the Stanlands, they want us the hell out of THEIR country.

    al-Queera wants US out of Saudi and to quit propping up the corrupt regime, they will travel to fight the US and support Mooslim groups around the world but to tie us down and dilute our ability to fight in the Middle East. Propaganda aside neither al-queera nor the taliwhackers have the ability to do more than isolated terrorist attacks outside their regions.

    Nazi Germany was seen as freedom fighters when they first invaded the Baltic States and the Ukraine. Many from those states fought with Germany against the Soviets. Glad to see you have read WWII history about the battles in the East.

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