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Camden To Scrap Police Dept Amid Budget Woes

I was going to pass on this thread because many of the comments showed no one knows camden NJ....Camden has been a city in decline since the 70s...crime is insane..the Police Dept has been undermanned and underfunded for many years....If you drive through camden it looks like afghanistan abandoned buildings and a city in truly disrepair....crime is so bad they closed a state prison located in the city that wasnt 20 yrs old...thats unheard of for example East Jersey and Trenton were built in the 1800s and still open...Camden cant survive without lots of state aid...its a dead city...


I used to travel all over the NJ for business. When I used to go to ...or through Camden I would get a sinking feeling. The city is one of the most depressing and dangerous places I have ever been to.
 
our economic woes are not being caused by teachers, police, or firefighters

States Warned of $2.5 Trillion Pensions Shortfall - CNBC

that's cnbc, january, 2011

the numbers have only fallen further upside down since then, tho wisconsin, ohio, michigan, new jersey and new york are taking steps

we have a real problem here and it's cataclysmic

camden, universally described as the most dangerous city in america, is faced with a menu of all dire choices

you're aware of what's going on in san bernadino, stockton, mammoth lakes, vallejo, san jose, san diego, harrisburg, jefferson co...

they sure have gotten a lot of media in the last year or so

one can satisfy one's burgeoning curiosity with a simple google search

now, illinois, there's another story

speaker madigan---just this week---deposited his second $100,000 donation from the seiu on the morrow of killing his pension reform

Madigan reports $100,000 more from union with members opposed to pension reform - Sun-Times Politics

surely, you're aware

one wouldn't go around spouting empty opinions less than fully informed, would one?

obama depends on the uninformed putting him over the top, a fool's errand
 
I used to travel all over the NJ for business. When I used to go to ...or through Camden I would get a sinking feeling. The city is one of the most depressing and dangerous places I have ever been to.

It truly is...its one of those places that all your senses tell you that you are not safe....can you imagine being a person having to live there maybe with children to protect ...24/7
 
It truly is...its one of those places that all your senses tell you that you are not safe....can you imagine being a person having to live there maybe with children to protect ...24/7

No I cannot imagine whatsoever. I had my main office in East Brunswick which was central to all and another office in the "iron bound" section and a few in NYC in Brooklyn. I traveled all over and that was the place I thought I would wind up with problems whenever I entered there. I am even talking about Newark's seedy sections and visiting clients in East Orange. That place is just a living hell.
 
No I cannot imagine whatsoever. I had my main office in East Brunswick which was central to all and another office in the "iron bound" section and a few in NYC in Brooklyn. I traveled all over and that was the place I thought I would wind up with problems whenever I entered there. I am even talking about Newark's seedy sections and visiting clients in East Orange. That place is just a living hell.

Camden cannot be secured imho...and taking out the police force that had a vested interest in the city may very well make it much worse for the decent citizens left. I hope not...
 
Camden cannot be secured imho...and taking out the police force that had a vested interest in the city may very well make it much worse for the decent citizens left. I hope not...

Frankly? I think it's time to bring the National Guard into some of these inner-city nightmares. The coppers can't do it. Somebody has to. Here in Chicago, kids are shot watching TV as bullets come zinging through the walls of their homes. Kids are killed on front porches.

Last Thursday (I'm going from memory here, but I know I'm pretty darned close), there were 19 shootings overnight...8 of them within a 30-minute period...and 7 or 8 at one intersection. Interestingly, there were video cameras around that one intersection, and they recorded coppers driving by ten times in the hour proceeding the shootings -- and just 15 minutes before the shooting, one of the LEO cars cleared the intersection.

It's like a warzone.
 
Frankly? I think it's time to bring the National Guard into some of these inner-city nightmares. The coppers can't do it. Somebody has to. Here in Chicago, kids are shot watching TV as bullets come zinging through the walls of their homes. Kids are killed on front porches.

Last Thursday (I'm going from memory here, but I know I'm pretty darned close), there were 19 shootings overnight...8 of them within a 30-minute period...and 7 or 8 at one intersection. Interestingly, there were video cameras around that one intersection, and they recorded coppers driving by ten times in the hour proceeding the shootings -- and just 15 minutes before the shooting, one of the LEO cars cleared the intersection.

It's like a warzone.


Maggie, crime in high crime areas is going to go up not down...I know many people cheer videos of cops and hail it as a godsend against the tyranny of the power mad braindead morons running around with guns with no training etc etc etc....but the real truth is the videoing has done alot more harm then good for citizens...if you want to scrutinize everything a cop does...the less he does the less chance he/she has to get set up right ?
Where as a beat cop would take the initiative and take extra steps and put more into doing his job...instead of "sitting" and waiting for the calls he cant avoid...it doesnt even have to be a cognitive thing...a psychological thing to protect yourself....police need support not constant condemnation to keep the attitude and desire to want to serve and do the best they can.
 
Camden cannot be secured imho...and taking out the police force that had a vested interest in the city may very well make it much worse for the decent citizens left. I hope not...

I do agree with this, which is why I posted that I am curious regarding the criteria of those that will be retained. Should it be those devoted professionals then this may not be the worst thing that could happen to the area. If it is based on some random picking and choosing then this transition and subsequent force will be rife with problems.
 
I do agree with this, which is why I posted that I am curious regarding the criteria of those that will be retained. Should it be those devoted professionals then this may not be the worst thing that could happen to the area. If it is based on some random picking and choosing then this transition and subsequent force will be rife with problems.

From what ive read only 200 of camden police will be retained and moved over...I dont know what the rest of the force will be comprised of...what I need to see is if this is a county force...what OTHER duties and areas of responsibility will they have, how thin are they going to be spread...another point is...the county camden is in..isnt so well off either...I hope this doesnt make life even more miserable for the decent people that are stuck in that hellhole...
Response time is crucial for police...whats it going to be with a county force...is this county force going to take and man all the inner city precincts...if they do all that what is the savings ?
 
From what ive read only 200 of camden police will be retained and moved over...I dont know what the rest of the force will be comprised of...what I need to see is if this is a county force...what OTHER duties and areas of responsibility will they have, how thin are they going to be spread...another point is...the county camden is in..isnt so well off either...I hope this doesnt make life even more miserable for the decent people that are stuck in that hellhole...

Unfortunately, this seems like a "fugazy" move and it will bring more pain to these good people.
 
Unfortunately, this seems like a "fugazy" move and it will bring more pain to these good people.

Sadly thats they way I lean with this...its one of those times that I really hope im wrong.
 
Frankly? I think it's time to bring the National Guard into some of these inner-city nightmares. The coppers can't do it. Somebody has to. Here in Chicago, kids are shot watching TV as bullets come zinging through the walls of their homes. Kids are killed on front porches.

Last Thursday (I'm going from memory here, but I know I'm pretty darned close), there were 19 shootings overnight...8 of them within a 30-minute period...and 7 or 8 at one intersection. Interestingly, there were video cameras around that one intersection, and they recorded coppers driving by ten times in the hour proceeding the shootings -- and just 15 minutes before the shooting, one of the LEO cars cleared the intersection.

It's like a warzone.

that, and many areas along our border, and just south of it.


I don't know about the Natl Guard, but it does seem like we should be putting many of the lessons we have spent the last decade painfully learning about counterinsurgency, and putting them to practice in our worst areas.


In addition, I repeat my call for the return of public executions, and the streamlining of our court system. Home Boy Who Shot That Dude isn't so tough or cool when everyone get's to see him cry, beg for his life, struggle against the rope, and then crap all over himself.
 
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Heres another perspective....

Layoffs in the city department start this month and less than half can expect to get a job with the county., Fox reported. The force would become defunct at the end of the year.
The financial woes engulfing Camden that forced it to slash its police department have been a stubborn symptom of the city's dysfunction. Last year, 167 officers got pink slips.
The diminished force was overburdened with major crimes that that they had to stop responding to minor car accidents, petty thefts and vandalism


Camden Police Department Will Be Eliminated And Replaced By Metro Department: Plan
 
Here in Chicago, kids are shot watching TV as bullets come zinging through the walls of their homes. Kids are killed on front porches.

about 5 years ago cnn did a kind of running series on a story it called "the wave of violence in the chicago public schools"

that's where i first learned of it

the news back then said that about two chicago school kids were killed each month by other chicago school kids

i'm a public school teacher and here in my northern CA district (we've had a small number of shootings the last 2 or 3 years, no injuries that i recall), if one of our kids died for just about any reason the entire district would stop to address it, do proper homage, kids would be talked to and counseled, it'd be a pretty big deal

i just can't imagine what life must be like in a community where it's so routine to see younguns killing each other...

after a certain number of these assassinations, school administrators must come to see that stopping to acknowledge each can only be throwing gas on the fire, only making things worse with this kind of attention...

i don't know, it's hard to say...

but i recall the wave of violence in the chicago schools well before arne duncan was appointed ed secty, i'd never heard of arne duncan

i was outraged to see that man, who couldn't even get his kids to class alive, move into obama's cabinet

i remember when holder and duncan went to chicago in 09 to try to do this, it followed that horrible, brutal beating-to-death that was caught on video and shocked a great deal of the entire civilized world

some poor youth literally clubbed to death by a mob of hyphy hellions wielding, if i recall, pieces of a fence?

the victim was 16 year old derrion albert from fenger hs

when holder and duncan went there, i remember them being very loudly criticized by local parents---moms and dads were very upset about a program duncan had put in place or promoted that essentially had kids traveling thru rival gang turf to get to and from school

i don't remember the name of that program, i did a quick search, no luck, it's late...

Federal officials visit Chicago to talk about school violence | Appearance by Education Secretary Arne Duncan and Attorney General Eric Holder comes after fatal beating of high school student

a person of your demonstrated curiosity, one of the few around here who actually reads, would know a whole lot more about it than i

thanks

Last Thursday (I'm going from memory here, but I know I'm pretty darned close), there were 19 shootings overnight...8 of them within a 30-minute period...and 7 or 8 at one intersection.

yes, indeed

BBC News - Nineteen shot in Chicago night of mayhem

it was prominent on drudge, it broke the same morning the nypd shot up the street in front of the empire state building

the mainstreamers ignored the chicago mayhem (they also ignored the shooting at the frc, tony perkins' family research council, which was committed by a lgbt activist who yelled "i don't like your politics" and was carrying some kind of a bag with 15 chick fil'a sandwiches, perhaps for his victims)

very typical of drudge, the link he provides on this incident is from the bbc

again, thank you

cliff
 
that, and many areas along our border, and just south of it.


I don't know about the Natl Guard, but it does seem like we should be putting many of the lessons we have spent the last decade painfully learning about counterinsurgency, and putting them to practice in our worst areas.


In addition, I repeat my call for the return of public executions, and the streamlining of our court system. Home Boy Who Shot That Dude isn't so tough or cool when everyone get's to see him cry, beg for his life, struggle against the rope, and then crap all over himself.

Better yet train and arm the Public at large. Crime go way down, especially if you enforce an open carry rule all citzens to be packing heat. ;) Work well with a shoot first, and "Questions? We don need ask no stinkin questions." policy.
 
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How much do you think a police officer should be paid? That's curiosity, not partisanship asking. I await your humble opinions as to what is fair.

"Paid" =/= "Compensated". Usually it is the pension demands of the public workforces that force localities to make brutal cuts to current workers. Much like teachers, I would argue that we should increase their pay and modernize their benefits away from an industrial - era model. The localities save money, our public servants get paid more money, the only people who get shafted are the union bosses who can no longer dictate what other people will get.
 
Better yet train and arm the Public at large. Crime go way down, especially if you enforce an open carry rule all citzens to be packing heat. ;)

my wife hails from Kennesaw Georgia.


...KENNESAW, Ga - Several Kennesaw officials attribute a drop in crime in the city over the past two decades to a law that requires residents to have a gun in the house.

In 1982, the Kennesaw City Council unanimously passed a law requiring heads of households to own at least one firearm with ammunition.

The ordinance states the gun law is needed to "protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants."

Then-councilman J.O. Stephenson said after the ordinance was passed, everyone "went crazy."

"People all over the country said there would be shootings in the street and violence in homes," he said. "Of course, that wasn't the case."

In fact, according to Stephenson, it caused the crime rate in the city to plunge.

Kennesaw Historical Society president Robert Jones said following the law's passage, the crime rate dropped 89 percent in the city, compared to the modest 10 percent drop statewide...
 
"Paid" =/= "Compensated". Usually it is the pension demands of the public workforces that force localities to make brutal cuts to current workers. Much like teachers, I would argue that we should increase their pay and modernize their benefits away from an industrial - era model. The localities save money, our public servants get paid more money, the only people who get shafted are the union bosses who can no longer dictate what other people will get.

Time for the people of camden to start taking resposibilty for themselfs I think. Sorry cops cant afford ya. We overspent.
 
Better yet train and arm the Public at large. Crime go way down, especially if you enforce an open carry rule all citzens to be packing heat. ;) Work well with a shoot first, and "Questions? We don need ask no stinkin questions." policy.

Oh, I can pretty much assure you that in Chicago's worst gang-infested neighborhoods it's already just about open carry and a pretty sure bet that every gang member and their wanna be's are packing heat.

Chicago's weekend of violence:

9 Dead, 28 Wounded since Friday afternoon. Murders up 30% compared to last year. The Police Chief has an interesting spin on it:

However, McCarthy insisted the perception of rising crime is out of step with the reality revealed by CPD statistics. “Over the first 3 months of the year, we had a 66 percent increase and a 40 percent increase in murders in shootings. And since that time, we’ve knocked those numbers way down to about 30 percent in the murder rate, and about 7 or 8 percent increase in the shooting rate. That’s not what’s being reported. What’s being reported is the whole number of shootings and murders every single day.”

Christ. Why any sane mother would live with her children in these war zones is beyond me. In these gang hellholes, society is so broken as to be nonsensical. Most of us would be homeless in boxes before we would expose our children to the dangers of these neighborhoods. What is wrong with these women?
 
Oh, I can pretty much assure you that in Chicago's worst gang-infested neighborhoods it's already just about open carry and a pretty sure bet that every gang member and their wanna be's are packing heat.

Chicago's weekend of violence:

9 Dead, 28 Wounded since Friday afternoon. Murders up 30% compared to last year. The Police Chief has an interesting spin on it:



Christ. Why any sane mother would live with her children in these war zones is beyond me. In these gang hellholes, society is so broken as to be nonsensical. Most of us would be homeless in boxes before we would expose our children to the dangers of these neighborhoods. What is wrong with these women?

Once again, your ignorance is showing:

And in that post shows your ignorance. You say that "black families don't realize they MUST remove their innocent children from these cesspools." That is completely and utterly foolish. Don't you think that people, no matter what their race, don't want their kids to be in cesspools, but are forced to because they don't have the money to move. I seriously doubt that any parent enjoys having their children live in crime riddled areas. You immediately assume that black families are OK with their kids living in crime-ridden areas rather than thinking about the situation and coming to the conclusion that black families live in crime-ridden areas, not because they like it, but because they have no other choice.

You state that " Perhaps they think this is a normal state of affairs. It isn't." Please, tell me, do you think that black families living in urban areas are so ignorant that they don't know about any other communities besides theirs? The situation is not seen as a normal state of affairs, this can be shown by the fact that they would have to know about other areas and neighborhoods that aren't like the one they reside in at all, just due to being exposed to things such as the internet and the news.
 
Once again, your ignorance is showing:

That you make poor excuses for why they don't move isn't the answer, Mr Invisible. And doesn't show my ignorance. Many of these poor families are on public assistance. They receive housing allowances where the government pays some, if not all, of their rent. They receive food stamps. They have friends they can double-up with. Many of them have families in other areas of the country.

Hell, they could move in down the street from me with their family. There's apartments in my neighborhood renting for $900 a month. How much cheaper is their rent? Maybe a few hundred dollars? Most or all being paid by the government?

They don't want to move. For whatever reason, they don't want to move. They think living in war zones is normal.
 
The fault does not lie with the cops...or teachers...or even their unions. The problem is that the city, state, and federal governments made unfunded promises when they entered into contracts and those contracts are no longer sustainable. Like it...dont like it...I could give a damn. It HAS to change whether you like it or not.
 
Ah obviously the way to solve Candem's crime issue is to financially cripple the very people who know the streets of Camden, fire half of them and replace them with rookies. I have no love for cops but this sounds ridiculous.

LOL - yes, some genius came up with this idea. LOL “The officers who are getting laid off are going to have to be the ones who train their replacements,”

You've GOT to be kidding me. :rofl Oh yes - this will turn out so well.
 
I pretty much agree with your POV about higher pay but modest benefits and no eternal pensions. But my question remains for everyone. How much would be a fair salary for a uniformed police officer? I'm so out of touch with some aspects of society that I don't understand what fair pay is for a profession like this. Trying to learn something.....

(Remember, I'm retired and get SS+Medicare+a couple of thousand in rental income and other interest. So I "make" about $48K which is far more than I need. I am a busybody angel type so I speend the majority of my income on family and friends but I don't have to "make a living". If I were a cop, I don't have a sense of what would be fair pay.)



"Paid" =/= "Compensated". Usually it is the pension demands of the public workforces that force localities to make brutal cuts to current workers. Much like teachers, I would argue that we should increase their pay and modernize their benefits away from an industrial - era model. The localities save money, our public servants get paid more money, the only people who get shafted are the union bosses who can no longer dictate what other people will get.
 
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