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All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

When the stress of possibly being killed by someone who points a deadly weapon at you and is 0.2 seconds from ending your life hits you, lets see how many rounds you pump out of a weapon before you realize that you have even been shooting.

Next time it happens, I'll let you know.


Have a nice day.
 
When so many Americans have the idea that "Only if I had a gun with me, I could have stopped X from happening", the real world sometimes shows a different reality.
My pistol doesn't have a 12lb trigger pull, so yes I'm absolutely certain that I'm a better shot than these cops.
 
I think Bloom-tard needs to order firearms training for his police.

I think he would be more likely to disarm his police then have them training with evil firearms.
 
THERE IT GOES!!!!

Someone is always throwing that FIRE EM FIRE EM FIRE EM argument in there.

Make a mistake? Fire em
Something bad happens outside of someone's direct control? Fire em
Officer farts in public? Fire em
Officer makes a joke? Fire em.

And, I guess the whole union rep thing has a point.... I wouldn't know..... We don't use that **** around here.

I have the utmost respect for LEOs, and that can be evidenced by my posts all over this board, Caine. Honestly, do you not think that wounding 8 people from errant LEO gunfire deserves a close look?
 
Bicycle-
yes I read the article but flipped the numbers, I did it from memory. Still stand by the HUGE differences between a CCW and cop being in a deadly encounter, cop is a walking bill board, the CCW can chose when and if to engage.

Now where did I say CCWs get their permits so they can kill people? Too many in here make wild claims to argue against. I NEVER said CCWs want to go shooting people, I'd lean the other way if anyway about it. I would say the vast majority of CCWs are ill-prepared to win a shootout. I did ask a few questions about how you practice. Most CCWs showed up at the school unable to cleanly present after an hour's practice back at the dorm. Difference? We were friendly, laughing and giving support along with pointers, very relaxed practice in a climate controlled room.

Out in the full sun we were abrupt, terse and using 'Drill' voices. We mocked the first student up online in front of the entire class (reserve deputy who had been CCW for over a year as I recall) The rest of the pack had a miserable time attempting to draw and present cleanly. But was done for a reason, practice as you fight, it won't be relaxed and fun. You will have to identify and react cleanly in a face to face encounter (what cops have to do when they are in the situation the 57 year old was)

Now the examples of effective use of a concealed weapon lean strongly to ambush tactics. I was a grunt, I love TO ambush, hate being IN one... ;)

Very effective, the badguys have no idea they are in a shootout till hopefully one of them is going down. Works for me, but can't compare to badguy vs cop.

Now there was a security cam vid posted on an old guy in a interwebz cafe who shoots repeatedly at two bad guys. He missed at least as much as he hit, neither badguy was fatally wounded.

Not very productive to cite one instance and proclaim it the example of all CCWs, either the one shot one kill or the multiple shots in a cafe.

Open carry is even rarer, I never saw the usefulness. Doesn't mean I am against it enough to vote to block it. only civilians I have heard of doing so are from your state where a few guys strap on and go to lunch one day a week as a 'show the flag' group meeting. Not doing anything useful.

Oh and a couple of guys in here who claim they do so in the small towns they go to for supplies up in the NW somewhere.

Anywho, never said CCWs are wannabee killers, just not well trained and at their best when they have the advantage of ambush, something few uniformed cops ever have. Unless the CCW is in the extremely rare face to face shootout, and yes you should expect to get hit at least once but must stay in the fight, the CCW gets to pick when and if he joins the dance.

I often wonder how many times a CCW was close by but chose not to play that day, you only here about the very rare successes, never about CCWs refusing to step forward.

Justa thought
 
THERE IT GOES!!!!

Someone is always throwing that FIRE EM FIRE EM FIRE EM argument in there.

Make a mistake? Fire em
Something bad happens outside of someone's direct control? Fire em
Officer farts in public? Fire em
Officer makes a joke? Fire em.


And, I guess the whole union rep thing has a point.... I wouldn't know..... We don't use that **** around here.

I'm not looking to fire cops for every discretion, but this is reckless endangerment if there ever was. Cops open fire in a crowd and hit the crowd. That's not acceptable.
 
Any person that draws a weapon when the cops are engaged with an active shooter, deserves to get shot.

And apparently anybody in the vicinity better hope his life insurance is paid up.
 
THERE IT GOES!!!!

Someone is always throwing that FIRE EM FIRE EM FIRE EM argument in there.

I'm glad 'someone' is doing it. It NEEDS to be said.

Make a mistake? Fire em

Yep. There are some "MISTAKES" that you just don't make ... this being one of them.

Something bad happens outside of someone's direct control? Fire em

Hmmm ... The cops did not have direct control of their weapons? If THEY didn't, who did?

Officer farts in public? Fire em

As long as it happens outside ... however, in Church, during a sermon, ... FIRE EM.

Officer makes a joke? Fire em.

Ya gotta be careful on this one ... if the joke is racial or sexual ... FIRE EM.

And, I guess the whole union rep thing has a point.... I wouldn't know..... We don't use that **** around here.

It does have a point ... and since you, by your own admission, know nothing about it ... I have not the desire, the time, or keystrokes to explain it to you.

MAGGIE IS CORRECT. YOU ARE WRONG.

A L
 
I have the utmost respect for LEOs, and that can be evidenced by my posts all over this board, Caine. Honestly, do you not think that wounding 8 people from errant LEO gunfire deserves a close look?

Im sorry, you didn't leave it at close look.

All uses of a firearm in the line of duty are given a close look.

You specifically mentioned firing them....

And THAT is why I picked on you.
 
I'm not looking to fire cops for every discretion, but this is reckless endangerment if there ever was. Cops open fire in a crowd and hit the crowd. That's not acceptable.

What did they hit the crowd with Ikari?
 
I'm glad 'someone' is doing it. It NEEDS to be said.



Yep. There are some "MISTAKES" that you just don't make ... this being one of them.
Which mistake was that?




Hmmm ... The cops did not have direct control of their weapons? If THEY didn't, who did?
What were these people hit with again?
 
Did 9 people get shot??

They got something, they certainly weren't feeling so good after the police shot up the place. Either bullets proper or fragmentation of debris as bullets did not hit the intended target.

Why do you want to play it off as if nothing happened. Maybe they got beaned with a dodge ball right at the same time the cops were shooting bullets all over the place. That seems probable.
 
They got something, they certainly weren't feeling so good after the police shot up the place. Either bullets proper or fragmentation of debris as bullets did not hit the intended target.

Why do you want to play it off as if nothing happened. Maybe they got beaned with a dodge ball right at the same time the cops were shooting bullets all over the place. That seems probable.

Im not saying nothing happened.

Im saying sometimes **** happens.... What do you expect police to do in a crowd of people if there is a person shooting in that crowd...... wait and call in air support while someone mass murders people?

How about those two guys.... he drew his gun on them at close range, were they supposed to scream like a little girl and run away and hope that he shot people in the crowd and not them?

Oh... no, you must be one of THOSE people who think its a Police Officer's job to die just for the sake of dying. But when they cops are dead.... who in the crowd is next?
 
Which mistake was that?

What were these people hit with again?

Here's a thought ...

I broke your post up into statements and responded to each one. Looks like your public school reading comprehension class failed you. So in an attempt to make up for that deficet ... go back to the post you quoted me on and look at each individual response.

I am responding to this hoping that you are asking serious questions. However, my gut tells me that you are just wasting keystrokes. We'll see what happens.

A L
 
Here's a thought ...

I broke your post up into statements and responded to each one. Looks like your public school reading comprehension class failed you. So in an attempt to make up for that deficet ... go back to the post you quoted me on and look at each individual response.

I am responding to this hoping that you are asking serious questions. However, my gut tells me that you are just wasting keystrokes. We'll see what happens.

A L

I am asking you to specify what you think the mistake was.... so I understand where you are coming from.
 
Im not saying nothing happened.

Im saying sometimes **** happens.... What do you expect police to do in a crowd of people if there is a person shooting in that crowd...... wait and call in air support while someone mass murders people?

How about those two guys.... he drew his gun on them at close range, were they supposed to scream like a little girl and run away and hope that he shot people in the crowd and not them?

Oh... no, you must be one of THOSE people who think its a Police Officer's job to die just for the sake of dying. But when they cops are dead.... who in the crowd is next?

I expect them to not endanger the public.

Nice idiotic hyperbole there, BTW. Come back when you've decided to treat the debate with a bit of intellectual honesty.
 
I expect them to not endanger the public.

Nice idiotic hyperbole there, BTW. Come back when you've decided to treat the debate with a bit of intellectual honesty.

Your response is an oversimplified non-answer.
 
Your response is an oversimplified non-answer.

At least it's not full of disingenuous hyperbole and lies.

The police must be able to use the tools of their job effectively and safely without endangering the public in general. If someone gets shot by a criminal or shot by the cops trying to shoot the criminal, the end result for them is the same. It is not acceptable to allow people to discharge firearms into a crowd recklessly as such. Had any citizen done something even remotely close to what the police did, they'd be in jail. Through their reckless behavior and discharge of weapon, the police injured 9 people. That is fact, measured and recorded. It is unacceptable behavior, just because you have a badge doesn’t give you license to endanger everyone else. As firearms are part of cops’ tools for their job, they must demonstrate an ability to use them properly, accurately, and with proper discretion. That was not the case here.
 
At least it's not full of disingenuous hyperbole and lies.

The police must be able to use the tools of their job effectively and safely without endangering the public in general. If someone gets shot by a criminal or shot by the cops trying to shoot the criminal, the end result for them is the same. It is not acceptable to allow people to discharge firearms into a crowd recklessly as such. Had any citizen done something even remotely close to what the police did, they'd be in jail. Through their reckless behavior and discharge of weapon, the police injured 9 people. That is fact, measured and recorded. It is unacceptable behavior, just because you have a badge doesn’t give you license to endanger everyone else. As firearms are part of cops’ tools for their job, they must demonstrate an ability to use them properly, accurately, and with proper discretion. That was not the case here.

Okay. Full of the same stuff everyone else has said... but nobody seems to have a response to the question Ive asked.

What SHOULD the police have done? In detail, not oversimplified "not endanger people". What should they have done to ensure A. They didn't die. while also B. Not endangering people.

I know the answer to the question..... and I know the mistakes that were made.....

Im trying to understand if you do as well, or if you are just criticizing for the sake of it.
 
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