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Thread: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

  1. #111
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    Re: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

    Quote Originally Posted by Another Lurker View Post
    This is a least the second time you've mentioned the trigger pull. I have mixed feelings about that, but I do think having that much of a pull is a safety consideration which may have prevented unwanted weapons discharges by cops. I am no expert, but apparently, the 12 pounds is not an arbitrary number.

    I return to a comment I made earlier about supervisors and training. What is the responsibility of a supervisor other than the quality of the donuts? If someone is properly trained, then the issue of the pull pressure is diminished. If you go to the range once a year and shoot a couple dozen rounds ... then you might have a point about pull pressure. Lethal force is a job requirement for these cops. I will not give them the 12 pound pull cop-out (pun intended). I fault the supervisors for not training these people properly ... and THAT is a mistake you don't make.

    As far as the folks (and I don't know how many) getting hit by fragments ... there is probably a direct correlation to the number of shots fired and the quantity of fragments. Yet again, the subject of training rears its head.

    So, based upon my limited knowledge of the subject of trigger pull pressure, I disagree with you and do not lay blame on the 12 pound trigger pull. I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the cops and their supervisors.

    A L
    Hey, now we are getting somewhere.

    The number of shots fired is high up on my list of the mistakes made. However, I can understand how such a mistake could be made by someone who is in a situation where they genuinely fear for their life.

    The trigger pull issue does come into play only because it add yet one more factor in creating an inaccurate shot. Increased stress from a fear of death + Heavy trigger pull (thus creating a higher chance to jerk the trigger/pull a shot off target) = Inaccurate shots.

    Increased stress from fear of death (made greater due to how close the police were with the suspect) = Clouded judgement on when to stop shooting.


    One "monday morning quarterback" suggestion that MAY or MAY NOT have been a good idea would have been to keep observation on the suspect after he was pointed out by the construction worker and follow/observe him until he cleared a heavily congested area before approaching him. HOWEVER, that scenario may not have been possible depending on when they were able to locate him and whether or not he saw them when they saw him, etc, etc.


    I know the general public tends to lean towards "the officers were wrong" in any situation, but one has to consider alot of factors when determining things like "recklessness" in defending their own lives. I honestly believe none of you are taking into account what fear and increased stress can do to one who is shooting for their life at a close distance like that.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  2. #112
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    Re: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I think it is great that the cops had the balls to do what needed to be done. They're heroes. It does, however, appear that they could use some marksman training.
    No amount of training can duplicate the effects that the very real fear of imminent death can have on your decision making and accuracy.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  3. #113
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    Re: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No Caine, it is not oversimplification, that is dismissal by you to protect your own (which I do say cops always do, so thanks for proving MY point). What they should have done was to be trained and capable of using their tools. What they demonstrated was that they were NOT. As such, they get taken off that beat until they can demonstrate themselves competent. They should have to face repercussions for the inept behavior particularly given the outcome in this case.

    In ANY job or business, ineptitude does not excuse mistakes, everyone faces the repercussions of actions. Everyone but cops it seems. If they endanger the public while exercising their job, then they are acting counter to the very reason as to why we have them. It must be regulated. If you leave a data point such as this which demonstrates they do not have the ability to properly and intelligently use the tools of their job, then they must be reprimanded, the same as anyone else would.

    Cops are not above the law, no matter how much you want to argue that case.
    Cops are not above the law.

    However, you are not taking into account the effect that increased stress levels from the imminent fear of death and how that effects ones ability to use fine motor skills in an accurate manner.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  4. #114
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    Re: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    No amount of training can duplicate the effects that the very real fear of imminent death can have on your decision making and accuracy.
    I'm just givin' 'em a hard time. I dunno how many were ricochet or fall-downs. I say 'absolutely' on the engage.

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