The bystanders were not shot. They were struck by fragments when bullets hit nearby surfaces, such as brick walls. A proper trigger pull would have drastically reduced stray fragments by allowing the cops to accurately place rounds on-target, where the perp's body would absorb the bullet and there wouldn't be any fragments to hit bystanders.
The cops involved in the shooting did nothing wrong. Whoever required the 12lb trigger pull should be fired and sued civilly.
Last edited by Jerry; 08-30-12 at 05:56 AM.
I return to a comment I made earlier about supervisors and training. What is the responsibility of a supervisor other than the quality of the donuts? If someone is properly trained, then the issue of the pull pressure is diminished. If you go to the range once a year and shoot a couple dozen rounds ... then you might have a point about pull pressure. Lethal force is a job requirement for these cops. I will not give them the 12 pound pull cop-out (pun intended). I fault the supervisors for not training these people properly ... and THAT is a mistake you don't make.
As far as the folks (and I don't know how many) getting hit by fragments ... there is probably a direct correlation to the number of shots fired and the quantity of fragments. Yet again, the subject of training rears its head.
So, based upon my limited knowledge of the subject of trigger pull pressure, I disagree with you and do not lay blame on the 12 pound trigger pull. I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the cops and their supervisors.
I can go along with looking at the powers that be who thought a 12 pound trigger pull is the way to go. I'd never heard of it before, guess I learned something new. Heard the number as 8 lbs not 12, but oh well. Oh as an aside Ayoob has 8 pounds on his Glocks, thinks the stiffer trigger breaks cleaner and stiffer spring allows faster back on target. (I take Ayoob with more than a grain of salt but he is a Guru of fighting handguns.)
Can say trigger pull is critical in pistols, is in a rifle as well but with pistols you have two unsupported hands controlling the direction. If your firing hand is fighting to put a great deal of pressure on the trigger your hands waver back and forth across the target far wider than on a lighter trigger as your hands fight back and forth to hold on target.
In comparison companies offer a glock fix of a 3.5 pound pull for the factory delivered trigger (5lbs). I learned on a 9mm Glock, shot the 45 Glock but I prefer my Springfield 45. It has additional safeties and a two stage trigger that is slick.
My thought is we call it trigger control, not a control trigger...
In ANY job or business, ineptitude does not excuse mistakes, everyone faces the repercussions of actions. Everyone but cops it seems. If they endanger the public while exercising their job, then they are acting counter to the very reason as to why we have them. It must be regulated. If you leave a data point such as this which demonstrates they do not have the ability to properly and intelligently use the tools of their job, then they must be reprimanded, the same as anyone else would.
Cops are not above the law, no matter how much you want to argue that case.
You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo
Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
I think it is great that the cops had the balls to do what needed to be done. They're heroes. It does, however, appear that they could use some marksman training.
So it appears that proper training is not part of what you consider important. There is a post below yours which pointed out the various pull pressures. Yet again, I freely admit to a lack of knowledge of same but I stand by my contention that proper training is the answer to the problem. Since you failed to mention the lack supervisory oversight leads me to believe that you are either in or have been in a supervisory position and don't want to criticise them. I have had supervisory positions (not in firearms) and I know that as Harry Truman's desk plaque said, "The buck stops here". Yes, I still blame the cops and I still blame the supervisors. The issue of the necessity of the 12 pound rule is up to the powers that be (aka OTHER SUPERVISORS).
Your "Whatever man" adds nothing to the discussion. Now, if the preceeding statement causes you a problem ...