Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 9101112 LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 114

Thread: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

  1. #101
    Sage
    Caine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-05-17 @ 01:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,336

    Re: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Shot straight.
    Thank you again for proving my point.

    Oversimplified once again.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  2. #102
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

    Quote Originally Posted by Another Lurker View Post
    Yep. There are some "MISTAKES" that you just don't make ... this being one of them.
    The mistake was the 12lb trigger pull, and the cops who shot had no control over that decision.

    The bystanders were not shot. They were struck by fragments when bullets hit nearby surfaces, such as brick walls. A proper trigger pull would have drastically reduced stray fragments by allowing the cops to accurately place rounds on-target, where the perp's body would absorb the bullet and there wouldn't be any fragments to hit bystanders.

    The cops involved in the shooting did nothing wrong. Whoever required the 12lb trigger pull should be fired and sued civilly.
    Last edited by Jerry; 08-30-12 at 07:56 AM.

  3. #103
    Advisor Another Lurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Uncle Joe's state
    Last Seen
    09-01-12 @ 10:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    319

    Re: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The mistake was the 12lb trigger pull, and the cops who shot had no control over that decision.

    The bystanders were not shot. They were struck by fragments when the bullets hit a nearby surface. A proper trigger pull would have prevented this by allowing the cops to accurately place rounds on-target, where the perp's body would absorb the bullet and there's wouldn't be any fragments to hit bystanders.
    This is a least the second time you've mentioned the trigger pull. I have mixed feelings about that, but I do think having that much of a pull is a safety consideration which may have prevented unwanted weapons discharges by cops. I am no expert, but apparently, the 12 pounds is not an arbitrary number.

    I return to a comment I made earlier about supervisors and training. What is the responsibility of a supervisor other than the quality of the donuts? If someone is properly trained, then the issue of the pull pressure is diminished. If you go to the range once a year and shoot a couple dozen rounds ... then you might have a point about pull pressure. Lethal force is a job requirement for these cops. I will not give them the 12 pound pull cop-out (pun intended). I fault the supervisors for not training these people properly ... and THAT is a mistake you don't make.

    As far as the folks (and I don't know how many) getting hit by fragments ... there is probably a direct correlation to the number of shots fired and the quantity of fragments. Yet again, the subject of training rears its head.

    So, based upon my limited knowledge of the subject of trigger pull pressure, I disagree with you and do not lay blame on the 12 pound trigger pull. I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the cops and their supervisors.

    A L

  4. #104
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

    Quote Originally Posted by Another Lurker View Post
    This is a least the second time you've mentioned the trigger pull. I have mixed feelings about that, but I do think having that much of a pull is a safety consideration which may have prevented unwanted weapons discharges by cops. I am no expert, but apparently, the 12 pounds is not an arbitrary number.

    I return to a comment I made earlier about supervisors and training. What is the responsibility of a supervisor other than the quality of the donuts? If someone is properly trained, then the issue of the pull pressure is diminished. If you go to the range once a year and shoot a couple dozen rounds ... then you might have a point about pull pressure. Lethal force is a job requirement for these cops. I will not give them the 12 pound pull cop-out (pun intended). I fault the supervisors for not training these people properly ... and THAT is a mistake you don't make.

    As far as the folks (and I don't know how many) getting hit by fragments ... there is probably a direct correlation to the number of shots fired and the quantity of fragments. Yet again, the subject of training rears its head.

    So, based upon my limited knowledge of the subject of trigger pull pressure, I disagree with you and do not lay blame on the 12 pound trigger pull. I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the cops and their supervisors.

    A L
    You admit to knowing what you're talking about, you disagree anyway, and you expect me to have something to say? Whatever man.

  5. #105
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    okla-freakin-homa
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,619

    Re: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

    Lurker-
    I can go along with looking at the powers that be who thought a 12 pound trigger pull is the way to go. I'd never heard of it before, guess I learned something new. Heard the number as 8 lbs not 12, but oh well. Oh as an aside Ayoob has 8 pounds on his Glocks, thinks the stiffer trigger breaks cleaner and stiffer spring allows faster back on target. (I take Ayoob with more than a grain of salt but he is a Guru of fighting handguns.)

    Can say trigger pull is critical in pistols, is in a rifle as well but with pistols you have two unsupported hands controlling the direction. If your firing hand is fighting to put a great deal of pressure on the trigger your hands waver back and forth across the target far wider than on a lighter trigger as your hands fight back and forth to hold on target.

    In comparison companies offer a glock fix of a 3.5 pound pull for the factory delivered trigger (5lbs). I learned on a 9mm Glock, shot the 45 Glock but I prefer my Springfield 45. It has additional safeties and a two stage trigger that is slick.

    My thought is we call it trigger control, not a control trigger...

  6. #106
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Thank you again for proving my point.

    Oversimplified once again.
    No Caine, it is not oversimplification, that is dismissal by you to protect your own (which I do say cops always do, so thanks for proving MY point). What they should have done was to be trained and capable of using their tools. What they demonstrated was that they were NOT. As such, they get taken off that beat until they can demonstrate themselves competent. They should have to face repercussions for the inept behavior particularly given the outcome in this case.

    In ANY job or business, ineptitude does not excuse mistakes, everyone faces the repercussions of actions. Everyone but cops it seems. If they endanger the public while exercising their job, then they are acting counter to the very reason as to why we have them. It must be regulated. If you leave a data point such as this which demonstrates they do not have the ability to properly and intelligently use the tools of their job, then they must be reprimanded, the same as anyone else would.

    Cops are not above the law, no matter how much you want to argue that case.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #107
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,312

    Re: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

    I think it is great that the cops had the balls to do what needed to be done. They're heroes. It does, however, appear that they could use some marksman training.

  8. #108
    Advisor Another Lurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Uncle Joe's state
    Last Seen
    09-01-12 @ 10:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    319

    Re: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You admit to knowing what you're talking about, you disagree anyway, and you expect me to have something to say? Whatever man.
    I admitted to NOT KNOWING a lot about trigger pull pressures. I guess you either failed to read and/or comprehend the rest of the post ... hence your "Whatever man".

    So it appears that proper training is not part of what you consider important. There is a post below yours which pointed out the various pull pressures. Yet again, I freely admit to a lack of knowledge of same but I stand by my contention that proper training is the answer to the problem. Since you failed to mention the lack supervisory oversight leads me to believe that you are either in or have been in a supervisory position and don't want to criticise them. I have had supervisory positions (not in firearms) and I know that as Harry Truman's desk plaque said, "The buck stops here". Yes, I still blame the cops and I still blame the supervisors. The issue of the necessity of the 12 pound rule is up to the powers that be (aka OTHER SUPERVISORS).

    Your "Whatever man" adds nothing to the discussion. Now, if the preceeding statement causes you a problem ...

    A L

  9. #109
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

    Quote Originally Posted by Another Lurker View Post
    I admitted to NOT KNOWING a lot about trigger pull pressures. I guess you either failed to read and/or comprehend the rest of the post ... hence your "Whatever man". So it appears that proper training is not part of what you consider important. There is a post below yours which pointed out the various pull pressures. Yet again, I freely admit to a lack of knowledge of same but I stand by my contention that proper training is the answer to the problem. Since you failed to mention the lack supervisory oversight leads me to believe that you are either in or have been in a supervisory position and don't want to criticise them. I have had supervisory positions (not in firearms) and I know that as Harry Truman's desk plaque said, "The buck stops here". Yes, I still blame the cops and I still blame the supervisors. The issue of the necessity of the 12 pound rule is up to the powers that be (aka OTHER SUPERVISORS).Your "Whatever man" adds nothing to the discussion. Now, if the preceeding statement causes you a problem ...A L
    A 12lb trigger pull is like having a bent barrel. No training is going to compensate for that, so whatever.

  10. #110
    Advisor Another Lurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Uncle Joe's state
    Last Seen
    09-01-12 @ 10:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    319

    Re: All nine wounded in NY shooting hit by police: official

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    A 12lb trigger pull is like having a bent barrel. No training is going to compensate for that, so whatever.
    So, in the immortal words of JERRY ... whatever.

    A L

Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 9101112 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •