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Thread: Christian Woman Fired from Burger King for Wearing Skirt Instead of Pants

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    Re: Christian Woman Fired from Burger King for Wearing Skirt Instead of Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Accomodating is something that should be left to the individual businesses discretion not mandated by law.
    Well, it's a bit too late for that, because in the 60's, the feds decided that they should dictate employments laws regarding discrimination in hiring practices.
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    Re: Christian Woman Fired from Burger King for Wearing Skirt Instead of Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Well, it's a bit too late for that, because in the 60's, the feds decided that they should dictate employments laws regarding discrimination in hiring practices.
    I dont see how this would qualify under those laws. I believe those laws exist for good reason and I believe do belong. Refusing to hire someone because of their religion or race ect is wrong, however expecting that they comply with your pre existing rules is not quite the same to me.
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    Re: Christian Woman Fired from Burger King for Wearing Skirt Instead of Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    I dont see how this would qualify under those laws. I believe those laws exist for good reason and I believe do belong. Refusing to hire someone because of their religion or race ect is wrong, however expecting that they comply with your pre existing rules is not quite the same to me.
    Title VII of the 1964 civil rights act (amended), says that businesses must make reasonable accomodations for employees, based on the individual's religious beliefs, unless those accomodations cause an undue burden to the employer.

    I'm not saying I agree with it entirely, because if I were hiring people, I'd rather have the option to hire whomever I wanted, with whatever rules I wanted, but legally, I could not do that.
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    Re: Christian Woman Fired from Burger King for Wearing Skirt Instead of Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Title VII of the 1964 civil rights act (amended), says that businesses must make reasonable accomodations for employees, based on the individual's religious beliefs, unless those accomodations cause an undue burden to the employer.

    I'm not saying I agree with it entirely, because if I were hiring people, I'd rather have the option to hire whomever I wanted, with whatever rules I wanted, but legally, I could not do that.
    REASONABLE is what makes this law ****ty. What I deem reasonable, you, or anyone else can vary. Making an exception for attire could make other employees want that same exception and then you lose your uniform all together. I happen to think that is unreasonable. I hate laws that are subject to interpretation for this very reason. Laws should be clear.
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    Re: Christian Woman Fired from Burger King for Wearing Skirt Instead of Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    A piercing could fall out and into someone's food.

    There is nothing unsettling to customers about a long skirt. Using your skull as a pincushion is a different story.
    And a skirt is loose enough that it can catch on something and cause injury. There are pro's and con's to everything.
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    Re: Christian Woman Fired from Burger King for Wearing Skirt Instead of Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    REASONABLE is what makes this law ****ty. What I deem reasonable, you, or anyone else can vary. Making an exception for attire could make other employees want that same exception and then you lose your uniform all together. I happen to think that is unreasonable. I hate laws that are subject to interpretation for this very reason. Laws should be clear.
    I agree wholeheartedly, but if you will take the time (at some point when you have alot of time to waste), and read through federal regulations in just about any aspect of federal regulation, you will find that "reasonable" is a frequently used term, and leaves much room for companies to skirt around the law, and abuse the system. I personally suspect that they use the term in order to facilitate applying punitive actions against individuals and businesses alike.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: Christian Woman Fired from Burger King for Wearing Skirt Instead of Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Burger King is doing to this woman what MOST large corporate employers (much of the labor marketplace now) are doing: attempting to enforce a level of conformity without regard for individual rights like, in this case, freedom of religion.
    You do not have the right to force others to give you things. This woman has no right to force BK to accommodate her religious beliefs. BK is not going to her house and restraining her from attending worship, praying as she pleases, or preaching as she pleases. They are setting rules about what happens on their property, in their house. They are saying that part of the job at Burger King is wearing pants, the woman is free to take or leave it as she pleases, and from that freedom of action that is left to her we can draw the conclusion that her liberties are not being infringed.

    BK could accomodate this woman's deeply held beliefs with a MINOR accomodation that would not impair her ability to do her job or the site's ability to function.
    I agree. And I think that they should, or at the very least should go out of their way to apologize profusely and profoundly and offer one heckuva separation package. But Burger King has the right to be stupid, if they choose.

    When enough employers do this, they're forcing people to choose between important issues of conscience and being able to work and pay their bills.
    No, they are forcing them to choose between their conscience and taking a job that would require them to violate it. I am not upset that Chip-n-Dales refuses to hire me as a stripper simply because I would not take my clothes off in front of a woman other than my wife. Taking that job would require me to violate my conscience and so I do not seek it. And Chip-N-Dales would not be violating my rights if I did take that job and was then fired for refusing to perform. The action I object to is what they are paying me to do - for me to take their money and refuse to undertake the action is theft.

    Corporations trend together in terms of many of the requirements they lay on employees. Many of these are based on liability and insurance; others are based on generic templates for corporate structure like this ICS 9001 thing. As time goes by and more and more employers end up as part of this megacorporate conglomerate structure, more and more of them will be laying on the employee requirements that trample individuality indiscriminately. Employees will have fewer and fewer options to "just go work elsewhere", when almost everywhere else is laying the same requirements on them.
    and the corporations are up in their corporate buildings being all corporationy, yes, I know. however the standard you are applying here is not about corporations, it is about whether or not an employee has the right to force their religious views upon the employer. Trade out "Burger King" with "Family Owned Restaurant", and the case you are trying to make here ceases to exist even though nothing has changed.

    Your ox may not be being gored today
    On the contrary. Not only does my place of work specifically demand what pants, undershirt, shirt, socks, hat, and shoes I wear on any given day, it demands that I shave my face every morning and maintain a certain length of hair. Furthermore, if I refuse to do these things not only do they retain the right to fire me, they retain the right to throw me in jail. Ditto for working on Sunday.

    but let this case go and others like it and one day it WILL be your ox who is getting gored by an organization too large and powerful for you to defy alone.
    why would I seek to defy an organization for offering me a job that I will not take? haHAH-take that, megacorp! you think Chip-N-Dales is suffering because they have no cpwill on stage? am I suffering because I'm not up there?
    Last edited by cpwill; 08-27-12 at 07:13 PM.

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    Re: Christian Woman Fired from Burger King for Wearing Skirt Instead of Pants

    BK will probably go with the safety issues. A skirt is just not appropriate attire for working in a fast food restaurant. I've worn long skirts before, and they are either constricting where you can't stretch your legs apart very far or they are flowing and loose. Both of these situations could pose a danger in an industrial-type kitchen.

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    Re: Christian Woman Fired from Burger King for Wearing Skirt Instead of Pants

    So, is the woman saying she did not know what the dress code was before she accepted to the terms of the job? Or is she just trying to make this into one more lame "religious persecution" idea?

    Seems to me, you work in the corporate world, you abide by the corporate world rules.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Christian Woman Fired from Burger King for Wearing Skirt Instead of Pants

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    It is not an all or nothing thing.

    You do realize that accommodations have always been made for religion right? While rings are not acceptable to wear in food service, they will accommodate for wedding bands. No one makes you wash the ashes off your forehead on Ash Wednesday.
    So the wedding rings that you got due to a religious ceremony are acceptable but not wedding rings used in front of a judge?

    Yes it is an all or nothing deal. All laws are suppose to be applied equally to the demographics that they are aimed at. If a law prevents a buisness from discriminating against religious things so long as it does not interfere with buisness then it includes ALL religions. You cannot pick and choose which religion the law applies to. That in itself is discrimination. It would be awefully stupid to have a law to prevent discrimination when the law itself discriminates against the very thing that it is suppose to help prevent discrimination from wouldn't you say?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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