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Christian Woman Fired from Burger King for Wearing Skirt Instead of Pants

Mya said:
Why?

It's simple...she brakes the dress code + she is rightfully fired + she doesn't like it + she wants money + she sues.

That's it in a nutshell :)
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Problem with that is she did not sue ......the US government sued on her behalf....:)



PARTIES​
3. The Plaintiff, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (the“Commission”), is an agency of the United States of America charged with the administration, interpretation and enforcement of Title VII and is expressly authorized tobring this action by Section 706(a) of Title VII, 42 U.S.C. Section 2000e-5(a)."

EEOC v Fries Restaurant Management
 
Spring99 said:
What would your thoughts be if this was a store owned by a Muslim and the owner required all women employees to wear a hijab and dress below their knees?
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I would also be very upset and disgusted.

Like I said several threads ago ... left or right ... any sort of fundamentalism from any religion I find abhorrent. I respect but I find abhorrent.
 
Mya said:
I would also be very upset and disgusted.

Like I said several threads ago ... left or right ... any sort of fundamentalism from any religion I find abhorrent. I respect but I find abhorrent.
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I don't see why they can't give the ladies an option of pants or a skirt. If they are a good employee and hard worker, you would think they would make exceptions especially for religious commitments.
 
Jerry said:
Your slope, it's slippery.
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It's an ugly truth. The DEA has always pushed against religious use of controlled substances for this very reason. Any religious claim and you can ignore state and federal laws on controlled substances.

What's your argument that "My religion says this, therefore your policy must go" stops with just BK?
 
Blackdog said:
Ahh, not trying anything. Just what I have observed from far right and left extremest. Hell Hatuey, you have seen it as well. God knows you have been here long enough.
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And I've made it a point ALWAYS put professionalism before personal desires regardless of one's religion or non-religion or even personal looks. Maybe 4-5 years ago when I was far more liberal than I am today. But here is a post I found on myself about 3 years ago with me discussing braids at the work place:

Hatuey said:
If you're over 16, any race and have a job or plan on having a job. You shouldn't have braids, dreads, mohawks, fauxhawks, buns, etc. But that's just me. Some things just don't look professional. Erykah Badu having an afro? Understandable. She's an artist. Michelle Obama having a fro? Bit unbecoming of a first lady. Obama's kids having braids or fros? Don't really care. They are kids.
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Hatuey said:
To me they remind me too much of some of my less, refined friends in California. I associate braids with gangbanging(Being in a gang. Not the other one) and Fros are for me associated with the 60s and 70s black power movements. It's also a matter of aesthetics. I know many people who have 'afros' and work in very professional environments however to me they simply don't look 'clean'. But it's not a race thing. It's just my own perception of what looks good in a professional working environment and what doesn't.
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http://www.debatepolitics.com/archi...you-think-should-exist-19.html#post1057704662

If you're older then 20 years old, you should not be allowed to sport braids or mullets.
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http://www.debatepolitics.com/archives/23296-piercings-3.html#post634717

Depends what you mean. I find that earrings suit me. The kind I wear go well with the clothes I wear when I have to do a presentation to a client or when I'm in a meeting. If I wore really big studs I doubt it would look as attractive. Either way it's a lot easier then having dreads or braids. I had to cut my hair off when I first started working. That for me was worse then taking off my earrings. Now I just keep it either lined up or geled up when it gets past an inch. If you work in areas where visual appearance is everything having untidy hair is a lot worse then having piercings or tattoos.
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:shrug:
 
Omgitsme said:
Depends on the job. If it pays well enough or if its all that I can find or if I enjoy the job enough then yes I would apply at a business that violates some of my beliefs.
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Of your own free will?

Omgitsme said:
And your question is irrelevant. First off she was told she could wear a skirt before she was hired. And secondly im sure she didnt think wearing a long skirt would be against the dress code in a fast food place. In fact im pretty sure ive seen an employee at a local BK wearing a long skirt. So no this isnt her fault in any way shape or form. Wanting to wear a skirt for religious reasons is not an unreasonable request nor an uncommon one as far as I can tell.
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So maybe you will answer the question this time. Lord knows I've asked it enough.

DOES THE GUY THAT DID THE HIRING HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE COMPANY POLICY? Just because he told her that she could does not mean that he had the authority to do so.
 
Omgitsme said:
She didnt know the dress code before being hired. She was told wearing skirts is ok. I checked the BK website where you apply for a job and couldnt find any mention of a dress code.
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What? She live under a rock? She never been to a BK before? Or any other buisness where they have dress codes? Oh wait, she should understand all about dress codes since she lives by one.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Of your own free will?



So maybe you will answer the question this time. Lord knows I've asked it enough.

DOES THE GUY THAT DID THE HIRING HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE COMPANY POLICY? Just because he told her that she could does not mean that he had the authority to do so.
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Yes of my own free will. A job is about making money for me. And if that job is good enough and it isnt violating something like murdering kids or something then sure I would take it.

That isnt the question you asked me. Here is what you asked me.

"Does this girl not have any accountability for her actions? Can she not make decisions as to where she works? And don't give me the whole speild about job scarcity. The girl was 17 years old. No doubt still living with her parents which provided and cared for her."

But no he doesnt have the authority to change company policy. You claimed that she knew there would be a problem with her wearing a skirt and I showed how she was told that it wasnt a problem.
 
Kal'Stang said:
What? She live under a rock? She never been to a BK before? Or any other buisness where they have dress codes? Oh wait, she should understand all about dress codes since she lives by one.
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Again she was told wearing a skirt would be ok. She did not think wearing a skirt would have been a problem. Also im pretty sure ive seen women wear skirts while working at BK before.
 
Risky Thicket said:
IMHO the issue will be whether the lady was informed or not prior to employment. How do they determine a he said/she said? I have no idea.

As far as I am concerned, the only people with rock solid credentials in solving a he said/she said arguments are moms. Somehow moms know that ****. My mom could cut through that sort of thing with my brothers and me in a second. Same with my ex-wife and my kids.



Just because EEOC accepts the complaint doesn't mean it is going anywhere. I can't imagine that BK hasn't been down this road before. Of course we don't know if the store in question was corporate or franchised and we don't know the legal support, yada yada, BK would provide a franchisee in this situation.

It will be interesting if we ever hear how the complaint is resolved, as apparently nothing involving the employee's attire and BK's dress code was put in writing.
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It appears (to me) that the issue will be around whether or not accomodating her religious beliefs, with regard to dress, is putting an undue burden on BK. My guess is that she will win, but I'm no legal sumbitch either. :lol:
 
digsbe said:
The thing is, she took the same initiative that you say that you do. During her interview she discussed her religious requirements and they told her that it would be ok for her to wear a skirt. It would be like an employer hiring you and then firing you later for having tattoos or earrings even though they specifically said that they would be acceptable.
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*raises hand* A similar situation happened to me. Not with the tattooes, I have none. I was hired as a tech at a casino and before I got hired I was upfront about my previous felony record. I was told by the manager that it would be no problem. 2 or so months later I was fired because of my record. Even after I had been nominated for employee of the month. Yeah I protested it, I went to the owners and talked to them about it. They still said I was fired. I accepted that. I did not even consider sueing them. But my point is that just because someone can do the hiring does not mean that they have the right to change company policy. Which is why I have continueally asked the question in this thread of "Did the guy that hire her have the authority to change company policy?" No one has yet to answer that question.
 
lizzie said:
It appears (to me) that the issue will be around whether or not accomodating her religious beliefs, with regard to dress, is putting an undue burden on BK. My guess is that she will win, but I'm no legal sumbitch either. :lol:
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LOL! Darlin', I'd never refer to you as a legalsumbitch, regardless. Or parts thereof. ;)
 
digsbe said:
I would say being terminated from employment is different from being told a lie on the sales floor prior to a purchase (which may be subject to fraud or false advertising). What this does do is affect her employment record and show up on background checks.
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No actually it would not show up anywhere. I should know as I've had plenty of background checks done on me and they never once asked me about previous jobs that I have had but I didn't mention in the application. Nor did they ever refuse to hire me because I didn't mention those jobs on the application despite that whole spiel about "the whole truth" that pretty much every application has now a days.
 
Spring99 said:
What would your thoughts be if this was a store owned by a Muslim and the owner required all women employees to wear a hijab and dress below their knees?
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It's that muslims buisness. I wouldn't care. I would defend his right to institute a dress code and apply it equally across his employee's just as much as I am defending BK's right to do so also.
 
Connery said:
Problem with that is she did not sue ......the US government sued on her behalf....:)



PARTIES​
3. The Plaintiff, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (the“Commission”), is an agency of the United States of America charged with the administration, interpretation and enforcement of Title VII and is expressly authorized tobring this action by Section 706(a) of Title VII, 42 U.S.C. Section 2000e-5(a)."

EEOC v Fries Restaurant Management
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And who told them about this supposed discrimination? The EEOC cannot go after someone without first knowing about it.
 
Omgitsme said:
Yes of my own free will. A job is about making money for me. And if that job is good enough and it isnt violating something like murdering kids or something then sure I would take it.
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So you are not forced to get that job by that employer. You voluntarily take it. Should that employer be made to accomodate your belief? If so, why? If not, why?

Omgitsme said:
That isnt the question you asked me. Here is what you asked me.
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Yes, I know.

Omgitsme said:
But no he doesnt have the authority to change company policy. You claimed that she knew there would be a problem with her wearing a skirt and I showed how she was told that it wasnt a problem.
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So if he does not have the authority to change company policy then he has no legal right to tell this woman that she could wear a skirt against company policy. Indeed it is grounds for termination in itself. Which means that the person who was suppose to give her the orientation was quite valid in firing her for not conforming to company policy. A policy which as an orientation trainer he must enforce in order to properly train the trainee's.

Thank you for answering that question btw.
 
Omgitsme said:
Again she was told wearing a skirt would be ok. She did not think wearing a skirt would have been a problem. Also im pretty sure ive seen women wear skirts while working at BK before.
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Was it within the same franchise?
 
Kal'Stang said:
So you are not forced to get that job by that employer. You voluntarily take it. Should that employer be made to accomodate your belief? If so, why? If not, why?



Yes, I know.



So if he does not have the authority to change company policy then he has no legal right to tell this woman that she could wear a skirt against company policy. Indeed it is grounds for termination in itself. Which means that the person who was suppose to give her the orientation was quite valid in firing her for not conforming to company policy. A policy which as an orientation trainer he must enforce in order to properly train the trainee's.

Thank you for answering that question btw.
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Depends on if its reasonable for them to accommodate me or not. Like does it interfere with the job in any way? Do they have to spend large portions of money in order to accommodate me? Things like that.

So if you know that you didnt ask me the question then why did you say "So maybe you will answer the question this time. Lord knows I've asked it enough."

I dont think they had a valid reason to fire her. People shouldnt have to choose between having a job and a religious belief which is what this is all about.
 
lizzie said:
Yes, I realize that sweetie. I was just making a point that I am certainly no legal eagle either. :mrgreen:
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Oh. Sorry. :slapme:

Neither of us are then, and together, now, we can acknowledge that we aren't. Are we together on that? :wink2:
 
Omgitsme said:
Depends on if its reasonable for them to accommodate me or not. Like does it interfere with the job in any way? Do they have to spend large portions of money in order to accommodate me? Things like that.
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So you feel that your beliefs entitle you to dictate company policy?

Omgitsme said:
So if you know that you didnt ask me the question then why did you say "So maybe you will answer the question this time. Lord knows I've asked it enough."
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I think there was a misunderstanding here. That sentence was in reference the question "does the guy that did the hiring have the authority to change company policy?".

Omgitsme said:
I dont think they had a valid reason to fire her. People shouldnt have to choose between having a job and a religious belief which is what this is all about.
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Nor do they have to. Find a job that does not have a policy which may interfere with their religious beliefs. You yourself admitted that you voluntarily of your own free will applied for that job. No one forced you to it. You are the supplicant to any job that you apply for.

Lets see if this will get across what I have been trying to say. Can a contract over ride a persons rights? Yes or no?
 
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