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Thread: Norway court deems Breivik sane, sentences killer to prison Read more: http://www.fo

  1. #81
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    Re: Norway court deems Breivik sane, sentences killer to prison Read more: http://ww

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Obviously, we disagree about the value of human life.

    Breivik's intention was to spread hatred, and real strength is not to give in to it. If we answered his hatred with more hatred, he would have won.

    Unlike you, I don't believe revenge liberates. Revenge never liberates. To maintain one's humanity in the face of evil liberates and is a sign of strength and true heroism.
    Again more scumbag sympathizer nonsense.What kind of garbage have they been shoving down your throats in Europe for you to actually believe that drivel? Adequately punishing a criminal with life sentences or the death penalty for murder is not inhumane, it does not bring us down to the level of the criminal nor does it make us like some middle eastern country.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #82
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    Re: Norway court deems Breivik sane, sentences killer to prison Read more: http://ww

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    And its been explained numerous times that he will be let out in 10-21 years if he is deemed no longer a threat to anyone.The fact he murdered 77 innocent people is irrelevant to Norway's justice system.
    If he really changes and no longer poses a threat, where is the problem? He wouldn't be the same person anymore who committed these crimes. Just hypothetically speaking, of course -- because if he does not change, he will not be released.

    The main goal of the justice system is to right wrongs and punish the offender.
    There is no way to "right" mass murder. There is nothing that will ever bring Breivik's 77 victims back to life.

    And revenge should have no place in the justice system, IMO.

    As I said, I think believing that giving in to revenge liberates is BS. It only further burdens the soul of the one seeking revenge.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  3. #83
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    Re: Norway court deems Breivik sane, sentences killer to prison Read more: http://ww

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Again more scumbag sympathizer nonsense.What kind of garbage have they been shoving down your throats in Europe for you to actually believe that drivel? Adequately punishing a criminal with life sentences or the death penalty for murder is not inhumane, it does not bring us down to the level of the criminal nor does it make us like some middle eastern country.
    More sadistic fascist drivel.

    If you don't like it, go to Iran. There, you will love it, because they have a legal system that exactly fits your sadistic mentality.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Norway court deems Breivik sane, sentences killer to prison Read more: http://ww

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    If he really changes and no longer poses a threat, where is the problem? He wouldn't be the same person anymore who committed these crimes. Just hypothetically speaking, of course -- because if he does not change, he will not be released..
    Whether or not he is the same person or not is irrelevant. He should either get the death penalty or never see the light of day outside a prison.

    There is no way to "right" mass murder. There is nothing that will ever bring Breivik's 77 victims back to life.
    He can be executed so that there is no possiblity that he can harm another person and that he will never be released..
    And revenge should have no place in the justice system, IMO.
    So you are saying screw the victims?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Norway court deems Breivik sane, sentences killer to prison Read more: http://ww

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    More sadistic fascist drivel.

    If you don't like it, go to Iran. There, you will love it, because they have a legal system that exactly fits your sadistic mentality.
    Again you are just spewing scumbag sympathizer drivel. Murders should be locked up for life in a real prison cell or executed.Not be sent to live in what many people all over the world would consider a ****en resort.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Norway court deems Breivik sane, sentences killer to prison Read more: http://ww

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Whether or not he is the same person or not is irrelevant. He should either get the death penalty or never see the light of day outside a prison.
    I tend to agree with the second part of your sentence. He should get a life sentence. And that's what he got. So where is the problem? Just that he gets parole hearings later, as other murderers too?

    He can be executed so that there is no possiblity that he can harm another person and that he will never be released..
    That's not necessary to make sure he cannot harm more people.

    So you are saying screw the victims?
    No. On the contrary.

    I just don't believe that revenge will help to make the victims feel better on the long run.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: Norway court deems Breivik sane, sentences killer to prison Read more: http://ww

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I disagree with caging people like animals in prisons.

    A legal system's first responsibility is protect society from criminals. Locking them away is often necessary to do that, but killing them is not. That's the difference.
    So if he were deemed no longer dangerous tomorrow and subsequently released, you'd have no problem with that? Punishment never enters the equation?

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    Re: Norway court deems Breivik sane, sentences killer to prison Read more: http://ww

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    So if he were deemed no longer dangerous tomorrow and subsequently released, you'd have no problem with that? Punishment never enters the equation?
    Assuming he really is rehabilitated and has become an entirely different person, I'd have no problem with that. But I think this case is very unlikely when it comes to Breivik.

    Punishment is important as deterrence, IMO. The punishment must be harsh enough to deter other potential criminals. So it has to "hurt", of course, to some extent.

    But deterrence only works so much. I doubt death penalty had deterred someone like Breivik from committing his crimes.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  9. #89
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    Re: Norway court deems Breivik sane, sentences killer to prison Read more: http://ww

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I tend to agree with the second part of your sentence. He should get a life sentence. And that's what he got. So where is the problem? Just that he gets parole hearings later, as other murderers too?
    He did not get a life sentence. He got a 10-21 year prison sentence.That means if enough idiots deem him safe enough to be released he can be let out after only serving 10 years.

    That's not necessary to make sure he cannot harm more people.
    As long as he is alive he can harm a prison guard or some other prison staff and he can harm other inmates.

    No. On the contrary.
    Uttering "justice shouldn't be about revenge" says otherwise.Disregarding how the victims will feel says otherwise.
    I just don't believe that revenge will help to make the victims feel better on the long run.
    If some guy only got only 1.5 - 3.2 months for murdering one of your loved ones how would you feel? Not only that you got to pay for his dormitory,horseback riding and other luxuries, how would that make you feel? Most people would feel as though the government just installed toilet over their loved ones grave.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Norway court deems Breivik sane, sentences killer to prison Read more: http://ww

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Assuming he really is rehabilitated and has become an entirely different person, I'd have no problem with that. But I think this case is very unlikely when it comes to Breivik.

    Punishment is important as deterrence, IMO. The punishment must be harsh enough to deter other potential criminals. So it has to "hurt", of course, to some extent.

    But deterrence only works so much. I doubt death penalty had deterred someone like Breivik from committing his crimes.
    There is no deterrence that will prevent someone from killing one person after another 77 times in succession. Nor will such an individual ever be capable of becoming a completely different person. Though I note a complete lack of empathy for the victims in your acceptance of his release if such a miracle were to happen.

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