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Thread: Multiple People Shot Outside Empire State Building

  1. #51
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Multiple People Shot Outside Empire State Building

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    I think it's better to err on the side of safety. Obviously, criminals in general aren't going to abide by gun control laws. However, if there is a fairly thorough screening process, it may prevent even a few unstable people from getting them and doing potentially bad things with them. I think that alone is worth it.
    if you want to err on the side of safety-stop disarming honest people


    btw NIGHTLINE JUST Reported that the 9 people wounded were wounded by the POLICE

    8 feet away and they couldn't keep their rounds on a guy whose weapon had jammed

    THAT IS PATHETIC GUN CONTROL by the NYPD

  2. #52
    Androgyne
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    Re: Multiple People Shot Outside Empire State Building

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    if you want to err on the side of safety-stop disarming honest people


    btw NIGHTLINE JUST Reported that the 9 people wounded were wounded by the POLICE

    8 feet away and they couldn't keep their rounds on a guy whose weapon had jammed

    THAT IS PATHETIC GUN CONTROL by the NYPD
    I'm not talking about disarming people or taking people's guns away. I'm saying that gun control is a necessary evil considering the amount of unstable people that there are out there. I'm in no way an anti-gun person. Hell, I grew up in a household that had a lot of guns in it. I have nothing against guns. The thing that concerns me is that many pro-gun people have gotten so carried away with being pro-gun that they've moved the median to a world of extremism where it's all or nothing and if you disagree with that you are anti-gun. I think someone who openly advocates taking guns away from people and basically ****ting all over the 2nd amendment is anti-gun. There is a gray area there.

    As for the cops wounding 9 people, they are trained and they still shot innocent people. That kind of **** does happen. What makes you think that an average citizen carrying a gun wouldn't potentially do more damage? Frankly, it surprises me that this guy got any shots off at all considering how many cops constantly swarm around those areas. Obviously, the NYPD needs to train their officers better for this kind of thing. However, it's not exactly surprising considering that this type of thing doesn't often happen. Manhattan Island is a lot safer than it used to be and is more of a tourist haven than anything else. You can thank gentrification for that.

  3. #53
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Multiple People Shot Outside Empire State Building

    1) having shot competitively at high levels (two world championships, several big pro IPSC shoots etc) I can tell you that people who get CCW permits generally are far better shots than cops.

    2) its already illegal to shoot people as the suspect did. He most likely didn't have a carry license-so what other laws do you want.

    3) i think he whacked his target then he pulled on the cops and was unable to shoot-they cut him down with 16 shots at a range of 8 feet hitting 9 other people along with the mope

    good shots (my level up to IPSC Grand Master) can put 16 rounds in a pie plate at 8 feet in less than 4 seconds) two of us shooting 8 shots each under 2.5

    those cops suck as shots

  4. #54
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    Re: Multiple People Shot Outside Empire State Building

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    I'd say the OP and a couple of the comments from other are politisizing this.
    What? How dare they politicize anything on a political forum!!

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    Re: Multiple People Shot Outside Empire State Building

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I'm curious. If preventing shooters from obtaining the weapons they need to kill won't stop them, what will? I hear a lot of "Rawr! Can't ban guns!" in these arguments, but very seldom any actual alternatives. The only idea I heard after the Batman shooting was all kinds of security in movie theatres. That suggestion was, of course, absurd, and it boggles my mind how the same people who lament the coming of a Big Brother future were in favor of constant scrutiny of people anytime they go outside their homes.

    So, gun advocates, if disarming the violent won't stop them, what will?
    An armed population.

    A gun control law isn't going to jump out of a book and paper-cut the criminal until he stops. A lawfully possessed firearm in the hands of a trained civilian, just you normal guy or gal, will stop the criminal.

  6. #56
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    Re: Multiple People Shot Outside Empire State Building

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    An armed population.

    A gun control law isn't going to jump out of a book and paper-cut the criminal until he stops. A lawfully possessed firearm in the hands of a trained civilian, just you normal guy or gal, will stop the criminal.
    So the only solution is more death? No, a society where we have to expect to fight for our lives against our neighbors is not one we should aspire to. We're better than that.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  7. #57
    Androgyne
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    Re: Multiple People Shot Outside Empire State Building

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    1) having shot competitively at high levels (two world championships, several big pro IPSC shoots etc) I can tell you that people who get CCW permits generally are far better shots than cops.

    2) its already illegal to shoot people as the suspect did. He most likely didn't have a carry license-so what other laws do you want.

    3) i think he whacked his target then he pulled on the cops and was unable to shoot-they cut him down with 16 shots at a range of 8 feet hitting 9 other people along with the mope

    good shots (my level up to IPSC Grand Master) can put 16 rounds in a pie plate at 8 feet in less than 4 seconds) two of us shooting 8 shots each under 2.5

    those cops suck as shots
    There's a world of difference between being a good marksman in a controlled environment and being able to hit a target during a high stress situation where tons of people are around. I also didn't understand this argument when people proposed it about the Colorado shootings. Again, training in a controlled environment is different than being able to hit one target in a dark theater where there is tear gas. As an armed citizen in the theater you would have 1 target. The gunman has several targets. He can hit anywhere he wants and his objective is met. You have to avoid hitting anyone else and just hitting him. Even in a situation where visibility isn't an issue, that would be challenging. Not to mention the stress factor.

  8. #58
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    Re: Multiple People Shot Outside Empire State Building

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    What? How dare they politicize anything on a political forum!!
    Well, it would have been nice if there would have even been an ounce of sympathy included in the politicizing. I realize we all have our own political agendas, but I don't think being a human ****ing being is out of the question.

    Not that I have room to talk because I haven't mentioned the victims yet either.

  9. #59
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Multiple People Shot Outside Empire State Building

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    So the only solution is more death? No, a society where we have to expect to fight for our lives against our neighbors is not one we should aspire to. We're better than that.
    well maybe everyone dropping to their knees and singing kum ba yah would have been better than a guy with a CCW whacking the killer rather than 2 cops wounded 9 people

  10. #60
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    Re: Multiple People Shot Outside Empire State Building

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    There's a world of difference between being a good marksman in a controlled environment and being able to hit a target during a high stress situation where tons of people are around. I also didn't understand this argument when people proposed it about the Colorado shootings. Again, training in a controlled environment is different than being able to hit one target in a dark theater where there is tear gas. As an armed citizen in the theater you would have 1 target. The gunman has several targets. He can hit anywhere he wants and his objective is met. You have to avoid hitting anyone else and just hitting him. Even in a situation where visibility isn't an issue, that would be challenging. Not to mention the stress factor.
    well having shot someone in a street mugging I think I understand stress. It wasn't any more than the stress of having been in the lead of the olympic trials until a piece of target came through the side of my glasses and messed up my eye. or shooting for 10K in prizes at the USPSA open nationals.

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