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Thread: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    What I don't get is that the Assad regime was known to have WMDs for quite some time. "In 1973, Syria reportedly obtained chemical artillery
    shells from Egypt prior to the October War against Israel, but did not use them" (http://cns.miis.edu/npr/pdfs/diab51.pdf) Why is the West just now being concerned about it?
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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    What I don't get is that the Assad regime was known to have WMDs for quite some time. "In 1973, Syria reportedly obtained chemical artillery
    shells from Egypt prior to the October War against Israel, but did not use them" (http://cns.miis.edu/npr/pdfs/diab51.pdf) Why is the West just now being concerned about it?
    Everyone's been concerned about it, but there was not much that could be done and it was at least chemical not nuclear, and it was limited to the control of the states arsenal. Not there is the potential for it being utilized or spread to other groups.

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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    In the final analysis, Ed is just another Establishment hack lying about the wars and other topics ...

    par for the course NBC

    Some funny bits, one has Ed slamming a liberal tea partier over Obamas lack of transparency over constructing the health care bill ... the caller is actually correct ...



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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    That is a ludicrously paranoid perspective. Which means its par for the course on an internet forum.
    Good comment. We need freedom from fear.

    The Pentagon has to scare you into a trillion dollar budget every year, they can't give up the cash cow.


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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    And your link to unbiased evidence that it is 'ludicrously paranoid' is what exactly?
    You know darn well after Syria they'll make up the lie Iran has nukes to complete their Napoleonic complex.

    Its so obvious!

    America has been arming the Free Syrian Army for the last year and a half, and they are doing all the terrorism in Syria.

    That is the fact the MSM and Democracy Now are hiding, the whole Syrian crisis was started by Obama, Hillary and NeoCon hawks in the State Dept./Pentagon.
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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Amy Goodman peddling the same invasion narratives as Hillary Clinton ...

    We are supposed to believe grants from Soros (on the board of Carlyle) and Ford Foundations CIA front are just coincidental?

    Hillary Clinton's Lies Exposed | Exploiting the Arab Spring and Misleading us
    In my opinion, Democracy Now making up news "facts" to support war (like Fox News) is further proof she is an a govmnt agent/ establishment front. Only government agencies make and disseminate propaganda and disinformation programs. Pre-determined reinforced dogma to legitimize war lies we saw under Bush except in Amy Goodmans case, for the Democrat Party.

    Like the Scaife websites World Net Daily and NewsMax are Republican Party establishment fronts that are fake news and information, designed to elect and reinforce Party dogma, (e.g. - Saddam has nukes, war on terror lies, christian coalition dogma, fears of Islam and Mexicans) in other words, stories that indoctrinate you to be behind the pre-determined Republican Party platform, leading you to water and making you drink, so to speak.


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    Last edited by Kane; 08-28-12 at 06:55 PM.
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  7. #77
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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I'm not sure I follow, you are saying the isolation of Saddam Hussein and the sanctions created a breeding ground for terrorism? Possibly, and I'm not supporter of the kind of sanctions we put on Saddam, it only ends up hurting the lower classes and orders of society, for the most part at least. Which is why military intervention is preferable. But lets accept the premise anyways. Even if what we did incited Osama bin Laden to attack the US, or our intervention in Kuwait did, or our positioning of troops in the Gulf did-- I don't care. Because I judge a foreign policy decision on its merits, not on whether a fundamentalist crusader thinks it is immoral. I'm not going to let OBL and his affiliates dictate US policy.
    Poverty equals terrorist breeding ground. No two ways about that. Terrorists prey on the poor because the poor have nowhere else to turn. That is why we have continually poured money into Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, etc because we think the better the population lives, the less likely they are to accept the quick money terrorists offer.
    Military intervention solves nothing. We are not trained to do that crap. We are trained to kill people, take objectives, etc. Not negotiate public works contracts, status of forces agreements, etc. It is the equivalent of putting an assembly line worker on an IT project. Thats why you see guys peeing on people and throwing Qurans out. We get tired of helping people out that decide to blow us up the next time we come around to check on how that new well we put in for them is working. Those people are like that slut girlfriend you can't get enough of. She gives up what you want so you will buy her more crap. Then, she does the same thing for some other guy. But for some reason, even though you know that, you still keep going back. Unfortunately, in our case, we are made to keep going back instead of choosing to.
    That fundamentalist crusader you speak of fought on OUR side during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Complete with American funding. We screwed him over when we cut off funding we had promised to him. Further, we shoved he and his freedom fighters out of the way so that we could fight the Iraqi's during Desert Storm. A fight we should have left to him seeing as he is Saudi himself. That's what intervention gets you. We make "friends" with the Saudi's but gain thousands of enemies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Secondly yes we do have the right and the interest to intervene in other countries internal affairs, and we should do so aggressively. It allows for the creation of much more advantageous geostrategic situations, and the chance for greater permanent stability by assisting the spread of democracy where possible. Furthermore you refuse a moral foreign policy objective with an absolutist one. We act when it is possible for us to do so, and in the most advantageous way possible. It does not make sense for example to invade Saudi Arabia, when the better option available to us for a variety of reasons is to work through the al-Saud as means for effecting reform and securing regional stability through strong allies.
    Democracy cannot be forced my friend. No matter how bad we want it to spread, people have to want it. That is why our country has been so successful and others have not. We wanted what we have. Afghani people could care less about a central gov't, fire/police services, or voting. They just want to be left alone to farm. Iraqi people don't want it. They could care less. They just want the economy of a free nation. Their politicians want it because they get rich. Further, you base your entire theory of "advantageous geostrategic situations, and the chance for greater permanent stability" off of the US engaging in further intervention operations. I submit they we should pull back more and not be so quick to invade another country simply because we don't like what they do. What if China didn't like what we do? What if they didn't like that we allow people to have children at their whim? What if they invaded us so that they could erradicate "useless" children to lower the global population? That may seem right to them. Not to us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I also disagree that no politicians care about dead kids in Syria. Just because you don't care doesn't make it the norm.
    If they did care, we'd be there already. We'd have been there a long time ago. In addition, if you think a lot of people care about Syria or it's people, take a look at this poll I started awhile back.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...ops-syria.html
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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    President Threatens Military Response Against Against Any Use of the Banned Arms

    'WASHINGTON—President Barack Obama threatened military action against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad if his forces attempt to use chemical or biological weapons, the strongest indication yet Mr. Obama would consider intervening in the grinding conflict.

    The president's message appeared aimed at signaling to Mr. Assad that an American military option is open, but U.S. officials hoped the threat would be enough to dissuade the Syrian leader from using such weapons.'

    Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons - WSJ.com
    If this is the extent of his message, I support it. I think it's reasonable for the President to make such a statement. It protects our interest in the region to relieve the concerns of Syria's neighbors.
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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Gee - I thought the Republicans said Al Queda was our enemy the troops sacrificed their lives to defeat?





    Washington’s proxy in Syria: Al Qaeda

    Washington?s proxy in Syria: Al Qaeda


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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Poverty equals terrorist breeding ground. No two ways about that. Terrorists prey on the poor because the poor have nowhere else to turn. That is why we have continually poured money into Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, etc because we think the better the population lives, the less likely they are to accept the quick money terrorists offer.
    Military intervention solves nothing. We are not trained to do that crap. We are trained to kill people, take objectives, etc. Not negotiate public works contracts, status of forces agreements, etc. It is the equivalent of putting an assembly line worker on an IT project. Thats why you see guys peeing on people and throwing Qurans out. We get tired of helping people out that decide to blow us up the next time we come around to check on how that new well we put in for them is working. Those people are like that slut girlfriend you can't get enough of. She gives up what you want so you will buy her more crap. Then, she does the same thing for some other guy. But for some reason, even though you know that, you still keep going back. Unfortunately, in our case, we are made to keep going back instead of choosing to.
    That fundamentalist crusader you speak of fought on OUR side during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Complete with American funding. We screwed him over when we cut off funding we had promised to him. Further, we shoved he and his freedom fighters out of the way so that we could fight the Iraqi's during Desert Storm. A fight we should have left to him seeing as he is Saudi himself. That's what intervention gets you. We make "friends" with the Saudi's but gain thousands of enemies.

    Democracy cannot be forced my friend. No matter how bad we want it to spread, people have to want it. That is why our country has been so successful and others have not. We wanted what we have. Afghani people could care less about a central gov't, fire/police services, or voting. They just want to be left alone to farm. Iraqi people don't want it. They could care less. They just want the economy of a free nation. Their politicians want it because they get rich. Further, you base your entire theory of "advantageous geostrategic situations, and the chance for greater permanent stability" off of the US engaging in further intervention operations. I submit they we should pull back more and not be so quick to invade another country simply because we don't like what they do. What if China didn't like what we do? What if they didn't like that we allow people to have children at their whim? What if they invaded us so that they could erradicate "useless" children to lower the global population? That may seem right to them. Not to us.

    If they did care, we'd be there already. We'd have been there a long time ago. In addition, if you think a lot of people care about Syria or it's people, take a look at this poll I started awhile back.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...ops-syria.html
    1. Terrorism is an extremely complex thing, and reducing it to poverty is a simplification. For example the bulk of those who join international terrorist groups tend to be middle class or wealthy, while those who join indigenous ones are more diverse in their socioeconomic background. Even amongst those groups however, suicide bombers tend to come from decently educated and wealthy backgrounds, while fighters and gunmen tend to be poorer. Moving beyond that point of course military intervention can solve things, and it has solved numerous things in the past. We were successful in Bosnia, Libya, and Kosovo just to name a few recent examples. We have the potential to be successful in Iraq and Afghanistan if we choose to. Furthermore you are wrong when you say Bin Laden was on 'our' side or that we funded him. We had no contact with Bin Laden, most of his funds came from Arab donors not ISI conduits, and he did not lash out because his funding was caught off. More to the point **** Bin Laden, I don't give a damn if he thinks it was terrible that he wasn't given the opportunity to fight Saddam on his own, it was delusional and would have meant that more than 1/4th of the worlds crude and gas production would have been brought under Saddam's heel.

    2. Which is why I disagree with your premise. I do not believe we are forcing democracy, we are enabling those who desire democracy to have it. Despite the violence in Iraq for example massive majorities support their new democracy and abhor a return to the old method of governance. Likewise in Afghanistan strong majorities oppose the Taliban and support democratic rule. I don't care if autocrats or a strong minority oppose it, we aren't fighting for them, I also reject moral relativism. I'm sure China could imagine that it doesn't like some aspect of our policy. I believe my approach is superior and more moral, if they want to fight about that (and they do) we can have that fight. It does nothing to diminish my perspective. Moreover the geo-strategic importance of the Caucuses, Central Asia, the Middle East, etc is undeniable, and our activities will better support our aspirations in the future.

    3. I don't really care what an internet forum poll says. Aside from being completely unscientific, with certain demographics massively over-represented, it doesn't come close to addressing the point I made.

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