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Thread: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Saddam Hussein used chemicals on his own country. No one in the region saw that as a starting gun to use theirs. In addition, Iraq didn't even use chemical weapons on us. Is it a moral travesty? Yes, it is. Is it OUR moral travesty? No, its not. We've had moral travesties in this country, no one's interfered with them. What makes us so special that we can do that to someone else?
    It was a moral travesty then too and aroused international outrage and contributed massively to the shut off of Saddam Hussein from the international community. But you're right something should have been done in 1993, we shouldn't have waited until 2003 to put a stop to those crimes and their legacy. Furthermore what makes us special is that we are the democratic hegemon and we have a unique role and position to enforce a better world order, and it is in our moral and strategic interests to do so.

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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Or, to put it another way...over 1,300 Americans have died in Iraq since Obama took office.

    And you honestly think he is going to suddenly go all squeamish over the prospect of 10-12 Syrian civilians being killed just because they died through chemical weapons if he thinks this will give him the excuse he needs to start bombing Assad?

    And remember, he is not killing these people. Their own people are doing the killing. He is just furnishing them with a means that the rebels can win the war.

    In fact, I bet you the rebels could probably find a dozen volunteers to throw down their lives to act as the 'innocent civilians' that are killed by chemical weapons so as to buy their people a chance at freedom from Assad.
    Actually, I guarantee you they could find a dozen potential martyrs to volunteer.

    You gotta learn to start to think outside the box.


    Have a nice day.
    If you cannot see the difference between a President administering over a war in which Americans die, and smuggling weapons of mass destruction to a rebel group so that they can engineer a cassus belli for intervention then I don't know what to say. I'm also supremely unconvinced that this sea-change you are talking about would happen if only 12 civilians were killed in a chemical attack.

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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Or, to put it another way...over 1,300 Americans have died in Iraq since Obama took office.

    And you honestly think he is going to suddenly go all squeamish over the prospect of 10-12 Syrian civilians being killed just because they died through chemical weapons if he thinks this will give him the excuse he needs to start bombing Assad?

    And remember, he is not killing these people. Their own people are doing the killing. He is just furnishing them with a means that the rebels can win the war.

    In fact, I bet you the rebels could probably find a dozen volunteers to throw down their lives to act as the 'innocent civilians' that are killed by chemical weapons so as to buy their people a chance at freedom from Assad.
    Actually, I guarantee you they could find a dozen potential martyrs to volunteer.

    You gotta learn to start to think outside the box.


    Have a nice day.
    You say this as if Obama needs some sort of reason to further assist rebels. Obama has about 150 new reasons every day to assist rebels. If he really want to push for a more active position in this civil war, I don't think he'd make it such a convoluted process. It's not like the Assad regime has been taking cookies from the cookie jar when nobody was looking.

    Also, this whole statement from Obama pushes me to expect a headline like this in the coming months: "Obama warns McDonald's not to sell Bigmac's; he wants people getting obese through other items on McDonald's menu"

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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    If you cannot see the difference between a President administering over a war in which Americans die, and smuggling weapons of mass destruction to a rebel group so that they can engineer a cassus belli for intervention then I don't know what to say. I'm also supremely unconvinced that this sea-change you are talking about would happen if only 12 civilians were killed in a chemical attack.
    So which do you think is morally worse for Obama to do, sending 1300 Americans to their deaths in a pointless war or helping Syrian rebels overthrow Assad by providing the means to gas volunteer martyrs to death?

    I say the former...by about a hundred times.

    What say you?
    Last edited by DA60; 08-26-12 at 01:35 AM.

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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    It was a moral travesty then too and aroused international outrage and contributed massively to the shut off of Saddam Hussein from the international community. But you're right something should have been done in 1993, we shouldn't have waited until 2003 to put a stop to those crimes and their legacy. Furthermore what makes us special is that we are the democratic hegemon and we have a unique role and position to enforce a better world order, and it is in our moral and strategic interests to do so.
    Sounds like a slightly watered down version of something Hitler might have said.

    A 'better world order'?

    Gitmo, torture, rendition, assassinating Americans without trial on the President's whim, the Patriot Act, wire-tapping US citizens, signing NDAA which allows future President's to detain Americans indefinitely without trial, bombing other countries that kills innocent civilians America is not at war with whenever the President feels like it, etc..

    That's your idea of a 'better world order'?

    Noted.
    Last edited by DA60; 08-26-12 at 01:43 AM.

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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Yes, and that is ludicrously paranoid. The President of the United States is going to smuggle some chemical binary shells to the Syrian rebels, so they can gas a village of a few dozen people, and pass it off as the Syrian governments work. That is insane. If the President wanted to get more aggressively involved in Syria he could. He has FSA and SNC representatives hounding the halls of the State Department asking for money, guns, and even a no fly zone and buffer zone from Turkey. There is regional support from the Gulf States and Turkey, there is support from Europe in the form of France and the UK, etc. He doesn't need to risk the destruction of US foreign policy credibility, and the implosion of his administration, by carrying out this insanely convoluted plan that might not even yield anything.

    Despite what partisan rancor might suggest elected official tend to not be psychotic nefarious individuals with spy thriller film plots that they want to enact.

    Furthermore if ANY President would jump at the chance why hasn't it happened? It's been more than 15 months of fighting, and at least 3 or 4 months since we heard about the dispersal of Syria's chemical weapons stockpiles to more secure locations.

    I repeat: Ludicrous, paranoid, and conspiratorial.
    Can you or can you not provide links to unbiased, factual evidence that what I am suggesting is 100% 'off the table' insofar as Obama is concerned?

    Yes or no?


    Btw - it has not happened (and I have never typed that it would happen, btw....just that it could) because Obama was a) not desperate enough and b) now apparently is which is why he made the statement he did so he sets up additional excuses to enter the conflict.
    Last edited by DA60; 08-26-12 at 01:42 AM.

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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    So which do you think is morally worse for Obama to do, sending 1300 Americans to their deaths in a pointless war or helping Syrian rebels overthrow Assad by providing the means to gas volunteer martyrs to death?

    I say the former...by about a hundred times.

    What say you?
    He didn't send 1,300 Americans to their deaths, he led a country in the midst of a war. I don't like the President, and don't plan on voting for him, but I refuse your characterization. Also your comparison is silly, there is a difference between leading a war which is judged to be legitimate, and engaging in the sort of convoluted nefarious action you are talking about.

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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Sounds like a slightly watered down version of something Hitler might have said.

    A 'better world order'?

    Gitmo, torture, rendition, assassinating Americans without trial on the President's whim, the Patriot Act, wire-tapping US citizens, signing NDAA which allows future President's to detain Americans indefinitely without trial, bombing other countries that kills innocent civilians America is not at war with whenever the President feels like it, etc..

    That's your idea of a 'better world order'?

    Noted.
    Yes a better world order. A world order in which autocratic regimes are pressured and in which democratic regimes are secured and expanded throughout the globe. A world led by the US as the head of the democratic alliance is the best that currently exists. Also yes utilitarianism is appropriate in pursuit of this objective. That being said I absolutely do not accept your definition or moral valuation on the things you listed.

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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    As soon as he said it the Russians and Chinese bitchslapped him back into his corner. And made him them fix them a sammich. And not some healthy tofu and greens wrap like what Michelle makes him eat...a REAL MANS sammich.
    Obama is black. Not for nothin' but we invented the sammich yo.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama Warns Syria on Chemical Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Can you or can you not provide links to unbiased, factual evidence that what I am suggesting is 100% 'off the table' insofar as Obama is concerned?

    Yes or no?


    Btw - it has not happened (and I have never typed that it would happen, btw....just that it could) because Obama was a) not desperate enough and b) now apparently is which is why he made the statement he did so he sets up additional excuses to enter the conflict.
    That isn't how this works. You alleged a ludicrous conspiracy theory, of course there are no links saying "President Obama NOT planning to smuggle chemical weapons to the FSA", there is however the deafening evidence coming from the present situation and precedent.

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