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Thread: Labor Department spent $500G in stimulus on green-job ad blitz on Olbermann, Maddow

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    Re: Your Tax $$ to 'Stimulate' MSNBC?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Yes, I accept corruption as a fact of life and you don't.
    No, I accept the fact that it exists but the difference between us is that I believe corruption should be opposed rather than embraced.

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Which one of us will have any impact?
    Good question. If you see a rape or robbery taking place and you do nothing to stop it, you have made an impact on society that encourages rape and robbery. Unfortunately there are enough people who, like you, are politically paralyzed and refuse to fight corruption, thereby encouraging more corruption. Hopefully people like me will have more of an impact than people like you. This is why I say I hope you don’t vote; if positive change is going to occur, people like you need to stay home and let those of us who are willing, do the work that needs to be done to clean things up.


    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    It's discouraging and depressing. I watch our owners rape, brutalize and rob us every minute of every day.
    This is really pathetic coming from a “bigger government” liberal who wants to hand more power over to the true threat. Historically, liberal governments have murdered countless numbers of their own citizens while capitalist companies have shortchanged their employees or maybe put them into dangerous work environments but there is no comparison when considering the toll a bigger, more corrupt government will have over a bigger, more corrupt corporation. Logically, there is no comparison.



    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    What strategy do you propose? Elect a different pack of crooks? 4th largest population in the world and exactly 2 political parties, both corrupt, to choose from.
    I propose that you be as outraged by government corruption as I am and use your vote to get rid of those who are corrupt. Just because there is a 2 party system doesn’t mean we are powerless. Are you so willing to throw your hands up and become a slave of the government? Get out there with signs, protest corruption wherever you see it, rally people to vote against the corrupt.

    Any questions?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Your Tax $$ to 'Stimulate' MSNBC?

    No, I accept the fact that it exists but the difference between us is that I believe corruption should be opposed rather than embraced.

    Good question. If you see a rape or robbery taking place and you do nothing to stop it, you have made an impact on society that encourages rape and robbery. Unfortunately there are enough people who, like you, are politically paralyzed and refuse to fight corruption, thereby encouraging more corruption. Hopefully people like me will have more of an impact than people like you. This is why I say I hope you don’t vote; if positive change is going to occur, people like you need to stay home and let those of us who are willing, do the work that needs to be done to clean things up.

    I'm willing to let you handle it. How are you doing so far? What group have you formed? What action have you taken?


    This is really pathetic coming from a “bigger government” liberal who wants to hand more power over to the true threat. Historically, liberal governments have murdered countless numbers of their own citizens while capitalist companies have shortchanged their employees or maybe put them into dangerous work environments but there is no comparison when considering the toll a bigger, more corrupt government will have over a bigger, more corrupt corporation. Logically, there is no comparison.

    I'm a "bigger government liberal"? Where did that come from? I'm the guy who is voting for Gary Johnson.


    I propose that you be as outraged by government corruption as I am and use your vote to get rid of those who are corrupt. Just because there is a 2 party system doesn’t mean we are powerless. Are you so willing to throw your hands up and become a slave of the government? Get out there with signs, protest corruption wherever you see it, rally people to vote against the corrupt.


    OK. I'm outraged. No, really, I mean that. My frequent complaints are part of why I didn't understand your "big government liberal" definition. The entire system is so corrupted that I can't find an outlet for my outrage. Just posting that you're outraged doesn't really have much impact.

    Any questions?

    I really want to know what you've done to express your outrage besides posting here. If you haven't really done anything at all, then why do you feel so superior to me, who acknowledges reality. Reality is what is, not what you want it to be.

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    Re: Your Tax $$ to 'Stimulate' MSNBC?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    OK. I'm outraged. No, really, I mean that. My frequent complaints are part of why I didn't understand your "big government liberal" definition. The entire system is so corrupted that I can't find an outlet for my outrage. Just posting that you're outraged doesn't really have much impact.
    Agreed: Posting your outrage to this forum doesn’t really have much impact when it comes to changing the minds of others but you do educate yourself and learn more about what you believe in. I’ve been a member of this forum for a while and I’ve had civilized discussions with people who vary from openly and active communists to openly and active anarchists. I hate to admit it but I lost some debates along the way.

    I take the time to regularly write to my congressman and senator with hand written letters, and I’ll mail it to them too. Hand written letters and phone calls are way more effective than emails but they all count.

    I live in California, so if anyone can relate to the political frustration and hopelessness resulting from entrenched politicians, I can.

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    I really want to know what you've done to express your outrage besides posting here. If you haven't really done anything at all, then why do you feel so superior to me, who acknowledges reality. Reality is what is, not what you want it to be.
    I don’t feel “superior” to you at all. I do think my ideas are better than your ideas but it ends there. That is what this message board was created for....to test your opinions and ideas against opposing opinions and ideas and to see how they stack up against what others like me think.

    I’m pretty sure we agree that government corruption is rampant but I doubt we agree on the specifics of how to make any changes because changes will upset the apple cart and you are already too partisan to oppose or support anything that your political master doesn’t direct you to do.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Your Tax $$ to 'Stimulate' MSNBC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    So you defend this.

    A bottomless well of excuses. "I refuse to hold the leaders I like accountable."
    No, I'm just pointing out that the outrage is incredibly selective. For instance, I didn't see anyone whining about spending money advertising for military recruitment. Because no dollar spent on the sacred military is wasted, right?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Your Tax $$ to 'Stimulate' MSNBC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, I'm just pointing out that the outrage is incredibly selective. For instance, I didn't see anyone whining about spending money advertising for military recruitment. Because no dollar spent on the sacred military is wasted, right?
    The Republican House loves them some military spending.

    The U.S. House voted Friday against an amendment that would have banned military sponsorship of NASCAR teams....
    [...]
    The U.S. Army, National Guard and Air Force will spend about $30 million combined this year to sponsor Sprint Cup teams.

    U.S. House rejects NASCAR sponsorship ban | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com
    It wasn't even close, the amendment lost 281-148.


    That was in 2011. Just to make sure they did it again last month.

    In July 2012, the US House of Representatives defeated the bill that would end military sponsorships for all major sporting events including NASCAR.


    For the record, I'm not against either. I like seeing alternative energy pushed and I like seeing an 'Army' car going down the track at 300 mph+.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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    Re: Labor Department spent $500G in stimulus on green-job ad blitz on Olbermann, Madd

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Labor Department spent $500G in stimulus on green-job ad blitz on Olbermann, Maddow

    The government already spends way too much of our tax payer's money on propaganda and advertising but this really smells of dirty “Chicago style” politics. Does anyone really think it was an accident that MSNBC was the beneficiary here?





    I have four friends who completed this “weatherization technician” training more than a year ago and not one of them has been able to find a job in this “growing” field. It was a waste of our tax dollars and a waste of my friends’ time.

    The claim of zero jobs created is a lie. If you made TV ads then you needed people to make the ads. then you needed to employ a media company to run them. revenue from advertising is exactly what pays for those jobs. So perhaps you did not make a lot of jobs, but the claims of no jobs created is false. besides, we could get back that money by stopping tax breaks for ballarina horses. That is about 7 ballarina horses we would have to stop giving breaks for and we could make back the 500k. I would have to say advertising for green products does more for this country than dressage kickbacks do.

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    Re: Labor Department spent $500G in stimulus on green-job ad blitz on Olbermann, Madd

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    The claim of zero jobs created is a lie. If you made TV ads then you needed people to make the ads. then you needed to employ a media company to run them. revenue from advertising is exactly what pays for those jobs. So perhaps you did not make a lot of jobs, but the claims of no jobs created is false. besides, we could get back that money by stopping tax breaks for ballarina horses. That is about 7 ballarina horses we would have to stop giving breaks for and we could make back the 500k. I would have to say advertising for green products does more for this country than dressage kickbacks do.
    I hate to break it to you but money spent on an existing job isn’t the same as creating a new job. Are you implying that the government should spend money so people in the media who already have jobs can be counted as “jobs created”?

    If we didn’t have a national debt monster threatening to devour the USA, I might be more inclined to agree with you on the benefits of stimulus but we are broke, must pay our current bills/obligations by borrowing more money and the elected officials are telling us that the reason we are in this mess is that we aren’t spending enough.

    Care to explain how this “spend your way out of debt” philosophy works? I don’t get it. I balance my budget every year but our elected officials don’t see the need for such simplistic measures and think we need to put more charges on the credit card to get out of debt? How is this anything but insanity?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Your Tax $$ to 'Stimulate' MSNBC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, I'm just pointing out that the outrage is incredibly selective. For instance, I didn't see anyone whining about spending money advertising for military recruitment. Because no dollar spent on the sacred military is wasted, right?
    You make a great point, for once, Deuce.

    The outrage is indeed selective when it comes to the military because the military is one of the few constitutional mandates to the government by the constitution, and the military needs to have a regular and steady flow of new recruits to function. Green jobs obviously don’t qualify as a constitutional mandate and the money this administration spent on them was obviously an utter failure.

    You can thank a Veteran for your right to spew your European Socialism ideals but you can’t thank Obama for the surge of green jobs he promised because it never happened. The Obama green jobs propaganda and education worked but the green jobs economy he promised just didn’t materialize.

    Obama is into the environment only when it benefits his chances of being re-elected. He’s more interested in making sure his special interest supporters get some pay-back than what is best for our nation.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Labor Department spent $500G in stimulus on green-job ad blitz on Olbermann, Madd

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    I hate to break it to you but money spent on an existing job isn’t the same as creating a new job.
    I hate to break it to you, but it is economics 101 that demand creates jobs. by creating a demand for commercials and their production you create jobs. Throwing money at rich people without creating demand does not create jobs at all. It just makes rich people richer. it is the major flaw in trickle down economics, and why it doesn't work at all. Like obama said, he did not make it himself, and he also did not make the media outlet that hires people to distribute the message. All of which exist because of demand for their product, and yes that does employ people. Don't get mad at me because that simple concept shows the claim no jobs were created to be false.

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Are you implying that the government should spend money so people in the media who already have jobs can be counted as “jobs created”?
    if no one made a demand for those things, then there would not be jobs for them to have.
    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    If we didn’t have a national debt monster threatening to devour the USA, I might be more inclined to agree with you on the benefits of stimulus but we are broke, must pay our current bills/obligations by borrowing more money and the elected officials are telling us that the reason we are in this mess is that we aren’t spending enough.
    here is a totally different issue. by reducing the spending which creates demand that makes the need for those jobs we would actually cut jobs even more. It is the basic concept behind cutting spending to cover the debt. by doing so you have to accept the sacrifices that come from the process. When i cut my spending to pay off my bills the small decrease in demand probably does not kill off another's job, unless it is in my business where it probably would. When the US government cut's spending it cuts a huge amount of demand. this is why neither party is willing to actually do it. It is actually an oddly downward spiral. the government cuts spending, which cuts demand for workers, which causes unemployment, which cuts tax revenue, which means they have to cut spending further.... So on and so forth. That is a little more advanced economics for you, but since 101 is confusing you that is probably a bit over your head. Cutting spending is a simple solution of fail given to simple people who cannot understand complex systems. The proper solution is a lot more complicated than simply cutting job creation spending.

    However, if you want to look to spending we can cut that will actually reduce our costs i would say we could easily look at congressional salaries and benefits. We could also reduce country building and foreign religious wars. Corporate welfare is another nice place to look. We could also cut out moral wars like the ones on gays, abortion, muslims, and immigrants. We could save big money on decriminalizing marijuana.
    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Care to explain how this “spend your way out of debt” philosophy works? I don’t get it. I balance my budget every year but our elected officials don’t see the need for such simplistic measures and think we need to put more charges on the credit card to get out of debt? How is this anything but insanity?
    You see, your budget is not the same as a government. Oddly enough the prosperity of the clinton era is directly attributed to credit spending. All that spending on credit lead to increased demand and increased employment. There is a little difference between your credit and the governments. You do not create the idea of money and wealth. That is established and created by the government. When you don't pay your bills the repo man comes and takes your stuff. When the government does not pay it's bills who is the repo man? He is the banker who is reliant on the government to establish his wealth. If the bankers kill off the US government they collapse the world. I find that a little hard to believe the rich people would let the collapse of the world's economies happen. It just seems to be detrimental to their existence as rich people.

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    Re: Labor Department spent $500G in stimulus on green-job ad blitz on Olbermann, Madd

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    I hate to break it to you, but it is economics 101 that demand creates jobs. by creating a demand for commercials and their production you create jobs. Throwing money at rich people without creating demand does not create jobs at all. It just makes rich people richer. it is the major flaw in trickle down economics, and why it doesn't work at all. Like obama said, he did not make it himself, and he also did not make the media outlet that hires people to distribute the message. All of which exist because of demand for their product, and yes that does employ people. Don't get mad at me because that simple concept shows the claim no jobs were created to be false.



    if no one made a demand for those things, then there would not be jobs for them to have.


    here is a totally different issue. by reducing the spending which creates demand that makes the need for those jobs we would actually cut jobs even more. It is the basic concept behind cutting spending to cover the debt. by doing so you have to accept the sacrifices that come from the process. When i cut my spending to pay off my bills the small decrease in demand probably does not kill off another's job, unless it is in my business where it probably would. When the US government cut's spending it cuts a huge amount of demand. this is why neither party is willing to actually do it. It is actually an oddly downward spiral. the government cuts spending, which cuts demand for workers, which causes unemployment, which cuts tax revenue, which means they have to cut spending further.... So on and so forth. That is a little more advanced economics for you, but since 101 is confusing you that is probably a bit over your head. Cutting spending is a simple solution of fail given to simple people who cannot understand complex systems. The proper solution is a lot more complicated than simply cutting job creation spending.

    However, if you want to look to spending we can cut that will actually reduce our costs i would say we could easily look at congressional salaries and benefits. We could also reduce country building and foreign religious wars. Corporate welfare is another nice place to look. We could also cut out moral wars like the ones on gays, abortion, muslims, and immigrants. We could save big money on decriminalizing marijuana.


    You see, your budget is not the same as a government. Oddly enough the prosperity of the clinton era is directly attributed to credit spending. All that spending on credit lead to increased demand and increased employment. There is a little difference between your credit and the governments. You do not create the idea of money and wealth. That is established and created by the government. When you don't pay your bills the repo man comes and takes your stuff. When the government does not pay it's bills who is the repo man? He is the banker who is reliant on the government to establish his wealth. If the bankers kill off the US government they collapse the world. I find that a little hard to believe the rich people would let the collapse of the world's economies happen. It just seems to be detrimental to their existence as rich people.
    Give me a break. Since when did economics 101 support your zany theory that the government spending money on propaganda creates jobs? You are making this crap up dude. You can’t support it and you know this was simple Chicago style politics where you pay back the favor to those who supported you and put a hit out on those who opposed you.

    MSNBC is as obvious as obvious can get when it comes to being a shill for Obama. They don’t even try to hide their agenda anymore. Obama made sure they got some payback for all their past and future support. End of story dude!

    Hate to break it to you again but the USA grew up without your twisted idea of economics and will survive your twisted view of “government sugar daddy” politics because your liberal politicians are going to get tossed out of office in November and the laws of this great nation will be respected once again as the new congress passes a budget every year, cuts spending, increases tax revenue and stimulates the economy by taking the chains off of the business sector by reducing the stupid regulations that are killing our economy.

    There won’t be a return to slavery or excessive pollution, no seniors being denied their Medicare or Social Security benefits but you and Obama will try to make it sound that way because you have no moral plumb line and retaining power is more important than the economy.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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