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Paul Ryan won't explain 'forcible rape' language

lpast

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All romney and ryan do is run their mouths and refuse to explain anything they want to do....this has gone way beyond just ridiculous


GOP vice presidential contender Paul Ryan declined to explain what is meant by "forcible rape" in abortion legislation he co-sponsored with embattled Rep. Todd Akin.Ryan, a Wisconsin congressman, and Akin are among the 227 co-sponsors of the "No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act," which would prohibit federal funding of abortions except in instances of "an act of forcible rape or, if a minor, an act of incest."


Paul Ryan won't explain 'forcible rape' language
 
So, no abortion if roofied, but yes abortion if beaten up? Yeah, that's a great distinction be worried about. The two are treated the same in terms of charging someone with rape, by the way.

I get a strong sense that these guys fundamentally do not understand the subjects they are trying to legislate.
 
Not all rape is “forcible rape”. If an eighteen year old knocks up his 15 year old girlfriend, it is rape but not “forcible rape”. I’m sure there are other examples but Ryan isn’t stupid enough to get caught up in this silly liberal fishing expedition when most Americans want to know what our government is going to do to turn the economy around and to reduce the debt.
 
Not all rape is “forcible rape”. If an eighteen year old knocks up his 15 year old girlfriend, it is rape but not “forcible rape”. I’m sure there are other examples but Ryan isn’t stupid enough to get caught up in this silly liberal fishing expedition when most Americans want to know what our government is going to do to turn the economy around and to reduce the debt.

Exactly. Forcible rape is a legal term. Look it up.
 
So if a woman is "forcibly raped," she can have an abortion because, after all, it would be barbaric to make her bear the rapist's child. But if she's drugged, or if she's molested as a child, then she has to bear the rapist's baby because, let's face it, the bitch was probably asking for it. :roll:

Am I missing something here, or is that an accurate summary of the position of those who support this kind of language in a bill?
 
So if a woman is "forcibly raped," she can have an abortion because, after all, it would be barbaric to make her bear the rapist's child. But if she's drugged, or if she's molested as a child, then she has to bear the rapist's baby because, let's face it, the bitch was probably asking for it. :roll:

Am I missing something here, or is that an accurate summary of the position of those who support this kind of language in a bill?

Forcible Rape Law & Legal Definition

Forcible rape is a rape where the anal or vaginal sexual intercourse is deemed to be without the lawful consent of the victim. In a forcible rape, the victim is prevented from resisting the sexual act because of the offender’s use of force or threats of physical violence, under circumstances where the victim reasonably believes that such resistance would not prevent the rape. [Edwards v. Butler, 882 F.2d 160, 163 (5th Cir. 1989)]. Attempts to commit rape are also included as forcible rape.
Forcible rape is different from aggravated rape. The difference is based on the degree of force employed for the unlawful sexual act and the extent to which the victim resists.

Sounds like you have it about right.
 
Exactly. Forcible rape is a legal term. Look it up.

Um, yeah, I'm not sure why this needed an explanation.

Being roofied is still forcible rape by federal definition.

Nothing to see here, basically.
 
Wasn't Ryan against all abortion except where the life of the mother was in danger?

Did that position become untenable?

If so wouldn't he make himself appear a little more reasonable to a number of Americans if he were to allow (in his world) some rape victims access to abortion?
 
Exactly. Forcible rape is a legal term. Look it up.

Actually it is not. The term has absolutely no legal definition. That was one of the biggest issues with this legislation. It would have created a nightmare for every state as they tried to figure out what did and did not fall within that category. It is not defined anywhere.
 
All romney and ryan do is run their mouths and refuse to explain anything they want to do....this has gone way beyond just ridiculous


GOP vice presidential contender Paul Ryan declined to explain what is meant by "forcible rape" in abortion legislation he co-sponsored with embattled Rep. Todd Akin.Ryan, a Wisconsin congressman, and Akin are among the 227 co-sponsors of the "No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act," which would prohibit federal funding of abortions except in instances of "an act of forcible rape or, if a minor, an act of incest."


Paul Ryan won't explain 'forcible rape' language

The article says there were 227 co-sponsors, including Mr. Ryan. I'm doubtful that you can extrapolate much of his opinion on the matter from that. It is routine for people to sponsor party bills who's language they have not meticulously examined and may not support. Based on what we know of Ryan I'd be surprised if he shared Akin's perspective.
 
The article says there were 227 co-sponsors, including Mr. Ryan. I'm doubtful that you can extrapolate much of his opinion on the matter from that. It is routine for people to sponsor party bills who's language they have not meticulously examined and may not support. Based on what we know of Ryan I'd be surprised if he shared Akin's perspective.

Dont have too it wasnt the other 226 that was asked to explain his postion it was him and hes the only one running for Vice President.
 
Dont have too it wasnt the other 226 that was asked to explain his postion it was him and hes the only one running for Vice President.

I believe he did, didn't he? ""Rape is rape. There is no splitting hairs over rape," Ryan told KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh, when asked twice about the "forcible rape" language and his opposition to abortion. The interview aired this morning." That sounds like his answer to me.
 
I believe he did, didn't he? ""Rape is rape. There is no splitting hairs over rape," Ryan told KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh, when asked twice about the "forcible rape" language and his opposition to abortion. The interview aired this morning." That sounds like his answer to me.

Yeah, that sounds like his answer now, but that was not the language in the bill.
 
Actually it is not. The term has absolutely no legal definition. That was one of the biggest issues with this legislation. It would have created a nightmare for every state as they tried to figure out what did and did not fall within that category. It is not defined anywhere.

Definition for forcible rape:
Web definitions:
In criminal law, rape is an assault by a person involving sexual intercourse with another person without that person's consent. ....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forcible_rape

Definition
Forcible rape, as defined in the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, is the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will. Attempts or assaults to commit rape by force or threat of force are also included; however, statutory rape (without force) and other sex offenses are excluded. Forcible Rape - Crime in the United States 2009

Forcible Rape, by UCR definition, it the carnal knowledge of a person forcibly or against that person’s will, or when a victim is mentally or physically incapable of giving consent. Attempts to commit rape are included in this category. One offense is counted for each victim of rape. Statutory rapes and other types of sexual assaults are not counted as rape under the UCR program. FORCIBLE RAPE

Forcible rape is a rape where the anal or vaginal sexual intercourse is deemed to be without the lawful consent of the victim. In a forcible rape, the victim is prevented from resisting the sexual act because of the offender’s use of force or threats of physical violence, under circumstances where the victim reasonably believes that such resistance would not prevent the rape. [Edwards v. Butler, 882 F.2d 160, 163 (5th Cir. 1989)]. Attempts to commit rape are also included as forcible rape. Forcible Rape Law & Legal Definition

If I can help in any other way, please let me know.
 
I believe he did, didn't he? ""Rape is rape. There is no splitting hairs over rape," Ryan told KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh, when asked twice about the "forcible rape" language and his opposition to abortion. The interview aired this morning." That sounds like his answer to me.

Reread my first post k :) and then you may understand what he wasnt responding too...my post wasnt discussing rape or its definition...but that ryan REFUSES to explalin HIS postion...hope this clears it up for you :)
 
Reread my first post k :) and then you may understand what he wasnt responding too...my post wasnt discussing rape or its definition...but that ryan REFUSES to explalin HIS postion...hope this clears it up for you :)

On abortion? I'm sure we can all guess it, and it was alluded to in the article. He likely believes abortion should be illegal in all circumstances except when the mothers life is in danger. It is a controversial time to be talking about abortion at the moment and he's avoiding drawing distractive fire. Abortion is not what he wants to be talking about. And I'm extremely grateful for that.
 
If I can help in any other way, please let me know.

Those are not legal definitions for the US. AS an example, the FBI one is for data collection purposes.

Laws regarding rape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is no national rape law in the United States, due to the United States v. Morrison ruling that parts of the Violence Against Women Act of 1994 were unconstitutional. Each state has its own laws concerning sexual aggression. Nor is there any national standard in the US for defining and reporting male-male or female-perpetrated rapes. In most states, the definition of rape is broad, with respect to genders and the nature of the acts involved.[SUP][36][/SUP]
 
Ryan was with Todd Akin writing that bill ! They purposely wrote the words "forcible rape" meaning a woman better be bruised and bloodied to prove it was rape in order to get an abortion basically if it wasn't violent then it wasn't rape. Such ugly vile men!
 
All romney and ryan do is run their mouths and refuse to explain anything they want to do....this has gone way beyond just ridiculous


GOP vice presidential contender Paul Ryan declined to explain what is meant by "forcible rape" in abortion legislation he co-sponsored with embattled Rep. Todd Akin.Ryan, a Wisconsin congressman, and Akin are among the 227 co-sponsors of the "No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act," which would prohibit federal funding of abortions except in instances of "an act of forcible rape or, if a minor, an act of incest."


Paul Ryan won't explain 'forcible rape' language

The purpose of the bill is to define, as narrowly as possible, when tax money can be used to fund an abortion. It is my understanding that no federal abortion funding is legal now, so adding any should be seen as progress by the "pro-choice" crowd. If the situation resulting in pregnancy is such that no criminal charges were brought then the act was not "criminal", so the abortion cost should not be the responsibility of the (federal) gov't. Many wish to have a "loophole" that allows federal abortion funding for all abortions simply by saying that the pregnacy was "not desired", thus making abortion into an "after the fact" gov't funded contraception option.
 
The purpose of the bill is to define, as narrowly as possible, when tax money can be used to fund an abortion. It is my understanding that no federal abortion funding is legal now, so adding any should be seen as progress by the "pro-choice" crowd. If the situation resulting in pregnancy is such that no criminal charges were brought then the act was not "criminal", so the abortion cost should not be the responsibility of the (federal) gov't. Many wish to have a "loophole" that allows federal abortion funding for all abortions simply by saying that the pregnacy was "not desired", thus making abortion into an "after the fact" gov't funded contraception option.

Looks to be not true: http://www.nchla.org/datasource/ifactsheets/4FSHydeAm22a.08.pdf

None of the funds appropriated under this Act shall be expended
for any abortion except when it is made known to the federal
entity or official to which funds are appropriated under this Act
that such procedure is necessary to save the life of the mother or
that the pregnancy is the result of an act of rape or incest.
 
If the situation resulting in pregnancy is such that no criminal charges were brought then the act was not "criminal", so the abortion cost should not be the responsibility of the (federal) gov't.

This isn't true at all; the vast majority of rapes are never even reported, much less successfully prosecuted. Just because there is no criminal conviction doesn't mean that a rape didn't occur.
 
So now actual criminal charges of rape or incest are needed to make the abortion gov't funded?

It does not say how the determination is made and I am not sure how it is done.
 
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