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Thread: Paul Ryan won't explain 'forcible rape' language

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    Re: Paul Ryan won't explain 'forcible rape' language

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What does a 12 year old do to decrease her chances of being raped? And how is she expected to know these things? And if you acknowledge that there is no difference in the degree of culpability of the victim, then we're back to the question of how the circumstances are relevant at all to the subject at hand in the first place.
    a 12 year old isn't likely to be a tax payer, or gainfully employed.

    your "bitch" in this analogy is the parents, not the child. they can do plenty to help mitigate the risk of their child becoming sexually active, and/or producing children, but the problem is you are trying to introduce a false sense of disgust and hatred for the parents. That we do find them to have a financial responsibility doesn't mean we think of them as bitches that deserve their kids to be pregnant.

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    Re: Paul Ryan won't explain 'forcible rape' language

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    I noticed after I laughed off your incest debate point, you pretended our exchange was over,
    Nah, I just haven't had time to respond to it yet. Zyphlin's posts are usually more interesting and well thought out than yours, so they tend to take priority. Your post might have to wait until later this evening.
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    Re: Paul Ryan won't explain 'forcible rape' language

    I think one of the things that makes the whole distinction between physically violent rape and others forms so insulting is that it limits the woman's rights based on the actions of the man. Even through an act of rape, a man is being afforded the chance to control a woman. It's bad enough that he has forced her into an act of sex against her will, but now whether or not she can exercise her right to terminate a pregnancy from that forced act is based on his actions. It was he who made the choice, not her. By limiting her options based on what actions the rapist took, he is gaining even more power over her. We should NOT be making laws that further empower rapists over their victims.
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    Re: Paul Ryan won't explain 'forcible rape' language

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Nah, I just haven't had time to respond to it yet. Zyphlin's posts are usually more interesting and well thought out than yours, so they tend to take priority. Your post might have to wait until later this evening.
    funny, because my post definitively pointed out how you were ignorant of the actual legislation and that you need to take more time and thought to be worthy of replying to me.

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    Re: Paul Ryan won't explain 'forcible rape' language

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I think one of the things that makes the whole distinction between physically violent rape and others forms so insulting is that it limits the woman's rights based on the actions of the man. Even through an act of rape, a man is being afforded the chance to control a woman. It's bad enough that he has forced her into an act of sex against her will, but now whether or not she can exercise her right to terminate a pregnancy from that forced act is based on his actions. It was he who made the choice, not her. By limiting her options based on what actions the rapist took, he is gaining even more power over her. We should NOT be making laws that further empower rapists over their victims.
    Thats what you guys dont get... the use of violence is an aggrivating circumstance, it makes the punishment more severe, and it isnt just violence, it is the threat of violence that falls under this definition, so that is MOST of the cases... those that dont fall under forcible rape, may be those where consent was muddled or the womans legal judgement impaired, even mildly.
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    Re: Paul Ryan won't explain 'forcible rape' language

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I think one of the things that makes the whole distinction between physically violent rape and others forms so insulting is that it limits the woman's rights based on the actions of the man. Even through an act of rape, a man is being afforded the chance to control a woman. It's bad enough that he has forced her into an act of sex against her will, but now whether or not she can exercise her right to terminate a pregnancy from that forced act is based on his actions. It was he who made the choice, not her. By limiting her options based on what actions the rapist took, he is gaining even more power over her. We should NOT be making laws that further empower rapists over their victims.
    the horror of limiting a women's rights to other peoples money. /sarcasm

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    Re: Paul Ryan won't explain 'forcible rape' language

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Zyphlin, look at this again: "the individuals actions create a situation(your words)". That is blaming the victim, or to put it another way "the bitch asked for it".
    Since yours requires a shorter response I can do it before I need to go.

    Suggesting that someone take action that is irresponsable and raises their risk does not equate to "blaming" them for the actoin that later occurs. If someone leaves their keys in their car and leaves it unlocked, they can be blamed for making a bad judgement call. They are not to blame for their car being stolen though, the blame for that lies on the thief. Protip...telling people what they're doing, when they've repeatedly stated the opposite of your claim, is laughable debate strategy. Doubly so when you then use the fabricated analysis of their argument to then exaggerate it into even more ridiculous ends to place upon them.

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    Re: Paul Ryan won't explain 'forcible rape' language

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Since yours requires a shorter response I can do it before I need to go.

    Suggesting that someone take action that is irresponsable and raises their risk does not equate to "blaming" them for the actoin that later occurs. If someone leaves their keys in their car and leaves it unlocked, they can be blamed for making a bad judgement call. They are not to blame for their car being stolen though, the blame for that lies on the thief. Protip...telling people what they're doing, when they've repeatedly stated the opposite of your claim, is laughable debate strategy. Doubly so when you then use the fabricated analysis of their argument to then exaggerate it into even more ridiculous ends to place upon them.
    But if your argument is that it has nothing to do with blaming the victim, then what *is* the distinction in terms of how the government treats the abortion? Is the fetus more of a human if the woman/girl made a "bad judgment" that caused her to get raped, than if she didn't? Is the victim's trauma less if she made a "bad judgment" that caused her to get raped, than if she didn't? Is the government more constitutionally constrained with its use of tax dollars for this purpose if the woman/girl made a "bad judgment" that caused her to get raped, than if she didn't?

    I mean...unless you want to argue for one of those three things, it ultimately comes right back to it somehow being the victim's fault or responsibility. Which, at the end of the day, is just a sugarcoated version of "bitch had it coming."
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    Re: Paul Ryan won't explain 'forcible rape' language

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Nah, I just haven't had time to respond to it yet. Zyphlin's posts are usually more interesting and well thought out than yours, so they tend to take priority. Your post might have to wait until later this evening.
    still waiting. starting to think you just don't want to acknowledge your poorly thought out debate tact, which is fine normally, if not for your weaselly words above.

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    Re: Paul Ryan won't explain 'forcible rape' language

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    still waiting. starting to think you just don't want to acknowledge your poorly thought out debate tact, which is fine normally, if not for your weaselly words above.
    Believe it or not, my life does not revolve around your posts on an internet message board. Did you wait up all night for a response, hitting "Refresh" on your browser every 10 seconds? Sorry that my life doesn't always perfectly accommodate your schedule. You're going to have to either suck it up and deal with it, or run along and annoy someone else for an insta-response.

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Taxpayers shouldn't pay for forcible rape either, but it is not logical to expect the felon going to jail for a long time to pay for it.

    It is reasonable for the parents of minors to pay for sexually active dependents however

    you mean incest? your ignorance in this thread is comical.

    "No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act," which would prohibit federal funding of abortions except in instances of "an act of forcible rape or, if a minor, an act of incest."
    It's absurd to say that the parents (or whoever is responsible for the minor child) are responsible for acts of statutory rape against the child. The whole reason that those laws EXIST is because society has determined that below a certain age people are NOT able to give their consent to sexual activity. Now, you can quibble about what the definition of statutory rape should be (e.g. whether the cutoff should be age 14 or 15 or 16 or 17 or 18) but the purpose of those laws is to protect people below that age precisely because they aren't responsible for their actions and they aren't able to give consent.

    Claiming that a child "wanted it" just because an adult was able to manipulate them into giving "consent" doesn't change that fact. And blaming the parents of the girl, rather than the girl herself, for her getting raped (assuming the parents aren't the perpetrators) doesn't change that fact either. You're still essentially blaming the victim, and these are just other variants on "bitch had it coming."
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-24-12 at 10:32 AM.
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