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Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

So if the Government decided to arrest you for swearing in public when there's no rule/law, you'd be fine with it?
Fortunately, the first amendment protects against that sort of thing. Have you ever taken an elementary level civics class?
 
She was given a chance to apologize for breaking to rule, which, if she had done so, would have allowed her to get the diploma. She refused to apologize, and opted to simply demand her diploma despite the fact that she broke the rule. Never mind that she is in no position to make demands, she rebuffed the generosity of the school to permit her to simply write out an apology. Why on earth would anyone support or encourage this kind of behavior?

You have a very odd way of looking at things.

The school was generous?
 
Have you ever been to a graduation?

Rules are broken all the time.

The hats are not supposed to be thrown into the air, but they do it. Should the diplomas be withheld in all those cases?

If somebody yells something from the crowd, that is breaking the rules. Should the diploma be withheld?
I don't see the connection. I do see a lot of arguing from emotion coming from your end. I can of imagine what rational reason anybody could have for supporting this petulant, stubborn, disobedient child.
 
Guy I.-

so someone standing their ground when you disagree with their reasons is petulant.

I note you like name calling, not a strong debate tactic, but seeing some of your other posts it is one of your stronger moves.

An intelligent person, and I believe this honor student is just that, can see the 'system' is wrong and there is no need to apologize because she did nothing wrong and with holding the diploma won't stand. Our nation was founded by such folks, I applaud her.

Seeing how there is more information on the rules, and apparently no rule about using the word hell on school grounds or functions- and the Superintendent now claims there is a 'confidential' reason...

perhaps you can admit there was no grounds for with holding her diploma, the school over reached and the honor student is justified in standing her ground.
 
Fortunately, the first amendment protects against that sort of thing. Have you ever taken an elementary level civics class?

Your right isn't being infringed, you're still able to swear. Would you have a problem with it?

I'll rephrase the question if it's too much of a problem. Would you be fine if the government made up a rule (unwritten) and arrested you for it?
 
There is nothing in that policy manual that rules it out.
Your theories about the secret motives of the school administrators are inconsequential.

If it is not explicitly written inthe rules it does not exist just like with any law.
 
You have a very odd way of looking at things.

The school was generous?

It is a very generous offer that they were under no obligation to make. What is stunning is that anybody would support this child's decision not to accept the offer. What kind of lesson is that for all the children out there? Break the rules, don't apologize, as long as you complain you will get everything you want.
 
If it is not explicitly written inthe rules it does not exist just like with any law.

I don't think you understand how these works, or else you would not say obviously false things like that.
 
It is a very generous offer that they were under no obligation to make. What is stunning is that anybody would support this child's decision not to accept the offer. What kind of lesson is that for all the children out there? Break the rules, don't apologize, as long as you complain you will get everything you want.

There was no rule.
 
I wonder what the state accrediting agency would say.
From a strictly technical point of view, she meets the requirements to graduate.
Schools can withhold diplomas for things like library fines,
but in this case it may cost her real money.
Scholarships may be put in jeopardy.
I think she should treat it like a traffic stop, be polite, apologize, and move on with her life.
It may not be right, but is the path of least resistance.
 
I don't see the connection. I do see a lot of arguing from emotion coming from your end. I can of imagine what rational reason anybody could have for supporting this petulant, stubborn, disobedient child.

Have you ever met Tigger? You guys might become best buds.
 
She will not have "earned" her diploma until she apologizes.

Why don't you look up the requirements to receive a diploma in that Oklahoma school system and I bet you won't find where it says the school can do this.

She earned the diploma with he hard work. Anything that happens after the end of the school year has no bearing on her diploma in any way.
 
I wonder what the state accrediting agency would say.
From a strictly technical point of view, she meets the requirements to graduate.
Schools can withhold diplomas for things like library fines,
but in this case it may cost her real money.
Scholarships may be put in jeopardy.
I think she should treat it like a traffic stop, be polite, apologize, and move on with her life.
It may not be right, but is the path of least resistance.

It "might not be right" to apologize for breaking school rules and publicly using profanity at a school function?

I agree that she should be polite and apologize, but rules are rules. It is right when a speeder gets in trouble for breaking traffi e rulea and it is right when a student gets in trouble for breaking school rules.

If you want to be rude and refuse to apologize to a traffic stop, see how far that will get you. But beyond that, there is no justification for the rudeness, since the person who did the deed bears the responsibility. So somebody is going five over the speed limit, cop pulls him over and the guy is rude so the cop writes him a ticket. If the guy had apologized the cop probably would have just let him off with a warning. But the rudeness and failure to apologize made a bad situation worse.
 
Why don't you look up the requirements to receive a diploma in that Oklahoma school system and I bet you won't find where it says the school can do this.

She earned the diploma with he hard work. Anything that happens after the end of the school year has no bearing on her diploma in any way.

You're simply and utterly wrong.
 
I don't see the connection. I do see a lot of arguing from emotion coming from your end. I can of imagine what rational reason anybody could have for supporting this petulant, stubborn, disobedient child.

You see emotion coming from me?

Do you not understand the concept of earning something and being entitled to that same thing?

He uttering a word, no matter how bad, is no reason to take away her right to her diploma.

It is funny you do not see high school students as adults nor as american citizens.
 
It "might not be right" to apologize for breaking school rules and publicly using profanity at a school function?

I agree that she should be polite and apologize, but rules are rules. It is right when a speeder gets in trouble for breaking traffi e rulea and it is right when a student gets in trouble for breaking school rules.

If you want to be rude and refuse to apologize to a traffic stop, see how far that will get you. But beyond that, there is no justification for the rudeness, since the person who did the deed bears the responsibility. So somebody is going five over the speed limit, cop pulls him over and the guy is rude so the cop writes him a ticket. If the guy had apologized the cop probably would have just let him off with a warning. But the rudeness and failure to apologize made a bad situation worse.

There were/are no rules regarding profanity. She did not break any rules.
 
Have you ever met Tigger? You guys might become best buds.

We are at polar opposites of the political spectrum.

It is deeply shameful to see all these people defending the obvious wrongdoer in this situation.
 
There were/are no rules regarding profanity. She broke no rules.

Hey, what do you know, you are still absolutely wrong, just like the last time you wrongly said this wrong thing. Did I mention yet hat you are wrong?
 
Hey, what do you know, you are still absolutely wrong, just like the last time you wrongly said this wrong thing. Did I mention yet hat you are wrong?

You mentioned it but still haven't backed it up. You've been making claims in this thread with absolutely no proof and you've repeatedly ignored questions I've asked you. It's supposed to be a debate, not a one-sided conversation.
 
You see emotion coming from me?

Do you not understand the concept of earning something and being entitled to that same thing?

He uttering a word, no matter how bad, is no reason to take away her right to her diploma.

It is funny you do not see high school students as adults nor as american citizens.

I only see emotion and I see a conspicuous absence of logic. Perhaps you had a bad experience with school administrators growing up? Your personal motivations are immaterial. Nevertheless, you wear your emotions on your sleeve, it is highly transparent where your feelings lie, and this is no doubt responsible for your failure to address this discussion reasonably.
 
It is a very generous offer that they were under no obligation to make. What is stunning is that anybody would support this child's decision not to accept the offer. What kind of lesson is that for all the children out there? Break the rules, don't apologize, as long as you complain you will get everything you want.

When I was her age I didn't let anybody push me around, especially school administrators that thought they knew everything.

The school has no legal standing here and I am sure they did not expect this to blow up into a national story, so they don't know how to handle it.

If you haven't noticed, you are the only one defending the schools position on this board. Unless youthink every poster here is an idiot, I would say you need to rethink your position.

Again I will ask you. If you earned your paycheck, would you be OK if your boss withheld it because you did not do a certain dance for it? If you earn your paycheck, do you think you should get it without having to comply with non-existent rules you knew nothing about at the time?
 
You mentioned it but still haven't backed it up. You've been making claims in this thread with absolutely no proof and you've repeatedly ignored questions I've asked you. It's supposed to be a debate, not a one-sided conversation.

I welcome you to say something not-wrong in order to advance the discussion, bu I shall not be holding my breath while waiting for you to do so.
 
I don't think you understand how these works, or else you would not say obviously false things like that.

I know exactly how it works. Like I said a similar thing happened tome inhigh school. The school has no legal standing on this and I would not be surprised if the girl doesn't already have her diploma.
 
It "might not be right" to apologize for breaking school rules and publicly using profanity at a school function?

I agree that she should be polite and apologize, but rules are rules. It is right when a speeder gets in trouble for breaking traffi e rulea and it is right when a student gets in trouble for breaking school rules.

If you want to be rude and refuse to apologize to a traffic stop, see how far that will get you. But beyond that, there is no justification for the rudeness, since the person who did the deed bears the responsibility. So somebody is going five over the speed limit, cop pulls him over and the guy is rude so the cop writes him a ticket. If the guy had apologized the cop probably would have just let him off with a warning. But the rudeness and failure to apologize made a bad situation worse.

If I did something wrong and I get stopped I take the ticket. I do not apologize for anything.

If I did nothing wrong, like inthis case, I take the ticket to court and it gets thrown out.

This is what this girl should do. It will be very interesting to say the least.
 
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