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Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

Guy

and I see it thusly, the girl, her parents and most the free world sees the withholding of her diploma as asinine, Gubmint overreach, a petty tyrant who needs a reality check. The MERIT graduate did not say hell in anger, or to attack the powers who be. Betcha a shiny nickle she is 18 and an adult.

The idea that she must kneel and kiss the Imperial ring is repugnant to most. You see it as a petulant child, most of us see a over the top administration with holding what they have no right to do.

If she mooned the audience I might go along with making her wait to get her degree, but she said hell in a very off the cuff way...

petulant to you is standing up to over reaching authority to most of us...
 
notquiteright said:
Seems to me this is like hanging someone for jaywalking.
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But ... but ... but ...

Guy Incognito said:
Rules are rules. I can't believe the petulant attitude I am seeing here, it is shocking that any mature adult would defend the behavior of this disobedient child.
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This yet another example of PC run amok. Lord have mercy.

A L
 
notquiteright said:
Guy

and I see it thusly, the girl, her parents and most the free world sees the withholding of her diploma as asinine, Gubmint overreach, a petty tyrant who needs a reality check. The MERIT graduate did not say hell in anger, or to attack the powers who be. Betcha a shiny nickle she is 18 and an adult.

The idea that she must kneel and kiss the Imperial ring is repugnant to most. You see it as a petulant child, most of us see a over the top administration with holding what they have no right to do.

If she mooned the audience I might go along with making her wait to get her degree, but she said hell in a very off the cuff way...

petulant to you is standing up to over reaching authority to most of us...
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There is no over reaching going on here whatsoever, and there can be no doubt that this is a petulant child. But it's the petulant adults defending the petulant that really surprise.
 
Guy Incognito said:
That is not a close analogy.
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Yes it is. She worked 13 years for a Diploma, said a 'swear word', and had her diploma taken away.

What if you said a 'swear word' at work and your boss said, "You're not getting your check, even though you worked all week for it."

Would that be a problem, in your opinion?
 
Guy Incognito said:
If you don't apologize you don't get your diploma! HOW CAN YOU GET YOUR DIPLOMA IF YOU DON'T APOLOGIZE?
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She's going to get her diploma. They will eventually relent and give it to her.
 
Lines from books commonly assigned for in-school reading:

“Pass the damn ham, please.”
― Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird
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Book also includes the descriptor "whore lady"

From Grapes of Wrath
"Sure - I seen it. But sometimes a guy'll be a good guy even if some rich bastard makes him carry a sticker." Chapter 2, pg. 9
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"This here is my country. I b'long here. An' I don't give a goddamn if they's oranges an' grapes crowdin' a fella outa bed even. I ain't a-goin." Chapter 10, pg. 142
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"So you're lookin' for work. What ya think ever'body else is lookin' for? Di'monds? What you think I wore my ass down to a nub lookin' for? Chapter 20, pg. 312
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A description of swearing in The Great Gatsby:
At least three "damns", and one "bitch". Also, some young boys write the word "****" in charcoal on a stone bench.
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Huckleberry Finn has repeated use of the word "nigger".

Of Mice and Men has sexual objectification and sporadic profanity.

...So given that information, given that this girl was likely exposed to quite a bit of profanity as part of her coursework (as were her peers), regardless of any rules regarding profanity...the reaction of the principal is extreme and unwarranted....and massively hypocritical.
 
No wonder Oklahomo gets a lot of tornados with people spouting lewd words like hell. It was caused by SATAN:devil:
 
Das Sozialist said:
Yes it is. She worked 13 years for a Diploma, said a 'swear word', and had her diploma taken away.

What if you said a 'swear word' at work and your boss said, "You're not getting your check, even though you worked all week for it."

Would that be a problem, in your opinion?
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It is not an apt analogy. You cant deny someone a paycheck for time they have already worked. A better analogy is a contract to build something payable on completion, then terminating prior to completion.
 
American said:
She's going to get her diploma. They will eventually relent and give it to her.
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What kind of lesson is that? What kind of example is that setting for children? You can misbehave and refuse to apologize, but as long as you complain it will all work out in the end.
 
Guy Incognito said:
What kind of lesson is that? What kind of example is that setting for children? You can misbehave and refuse to apologize, but as long as you complain it will all work out in the end.
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you keep referring to children, which makes your argument asinine on the face.

We are likely talking about an 18 year old. That you have to use exaggeration to make your absurd claims not seem so absurd says it all about your ability to debate on the subject.
 
Guy Incognito said:
It is not an apt analogy. You cant deny someone a paycheck for time they have already worked. A better analogy is a contract to build something payable on completion, then terminating prior to completion.
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Correct, she worked 13 years for a diploma. You can't deny someone a diploma for school years they have already completed.
 
ARealConservative said:
you keep referring to children, which makes your argument asinine on the face.

We are likely talking about an 18 year old. That you have to use exaggeration to make your absurd claims not seem so absurd says it all about your ability to debate on the subject.
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If we consider the person in question to be an adult, it is just that much worse. Why on earth would any defend an adult who broke the rules and then refused to apologize?

Regardless, I am not in the habit of recognizing high school students as adults. That's weird.
 
Das Sozialist said:
Correct, she worked 13 years for a diploma. You can't deny someone a diploma for school years they have already completed.
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She didn't work 13 years on an hourly basis. Schools grant diplomas on completion. You can't get a pro rates diploma. If you work all that time and blow it at the last minute, you're out of luck. It's the same reason twelfth grade dropouts don't get diplomas. Close but no cigar.
 
Guy Incognito said:
If we consider the person in question to be an adult, it is just that much worse. Why on earth would any defend an adult who broke the rules and then refused to apologize?

Regardless, I am not in the habit of recognizing high school students as adults. That's weird.
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rules get broken all the time. I'm not sure if one was in this case, and I noticed you have so far failed to produce any evidence that hell is a rule violation.

all you have done so far is rushed to judgement about this supposed child, that may not be a child at all.
 
Another Lurker said:
I tend to agree ... however, why would the morons on the school board even do this to begin with. The operative word is MORONS.

A L
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What is moronic about enforcing rules?
 
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Guy Incognito said:
She didn't work 13 years on an hourly basis. Schools grant diplomas on completion. You can't get a pro rates diploma. If you work all that time and blow it at the last minute, you're out of luck. It's the same reason twelfth grade dropouts don't get diplomas. Close but no cigar.
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She completed schooling. You receive your diploma AFTER you exit school, unless she blew it during class-time or when school was in session, she still deserves the diploma.
 
ARealConservative said:
rules get broken all the time. I'm not sure if one was in this case, and I noticed you have so far failed to produce any evidence that hell is a rule violation.

all you have done so far is rushed to judgement about this supposed child, that may not be a child at all.
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I'm not sure what type of person considers a high school sTudent an adult, but even if we assume that is true, an adult has an even greater culpability.

It continues to shock me that people are defending a misbehaving student like this. Some key said it earlier, PC run amok, and they are right. I am normally all for being PC, I think it is just part of being polite to call groups of people by the names they want to b e ccalled, etc. But this has nothing to do with being politically correct or free speech or anything like that. It is simply about apologizing for breaking the rules, or stubbornly and self righteously refusing to apologize. The morally correct path is obvious.
 
Das Sozialist said:
She completed schooling. You receive your diploma AFTER you exit school, unless she blew it during class-time or when school was in session, she still deserves the diploma.
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Doesnt work that way.
 
Guy Incognito said:
What is moronic about enforcing rules?
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I'm not getting the part about the 'rules'. If the rule is the rule, then why would an apology change anything? Wouldn't she still have broken the rule? Maybe they could put her in after-school detention next year.

A L
 
Another Lurker said:
I'm not getting the part about the 'rules'. If the rule is the rule, then why would an apology change anything? Wouldn't she still have broken the rule? Maybe they could put her in after-school detention next year.

A L
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She was given a chance to apologize for breaking to rule, which, if she had done so, would have allowed her to get the diploma. She refused to apologize, and opted to simply demand her diploma despite the fact that she broke the rule. Never mind that she is in no position to make demands, she rebuffed the generosity of the school to permit her to simply write out an apology. Why on earth would anyone support or encourage this kind of behavior?
 
Guy Incognito said:
Doesn't work that way.
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It does.

Below I listed a picture of a typical High-School Calendar (I apologize for the bad quality). Notice that schooling ends prior to graduation.

Valedictorians give their speeches at the Graduation, after schooling ends. I believe the rules wouldn't apply if schooling is officially over and no rules were set prohibiting profanity or vulgar language, such as 'Hell', at the Graduation Ceremony.

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/232/hsgrad.png/][/URL]
 
Das Sozialist said:
It does.

Below I listed a picture of a typical High-School Calendar (I apologize for the bad quality). Notice that schooling ends prior to graduation.

Valedictorians give their speeches at the Graduation, after schooling ends. I believe the rules wouldn't apply if schooling is officially over and no rules were set prohibiting profanity or vulgar language, such as 'Hell', at the Graduation Ceremony.

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/232/hsgrad.png/][/URL]
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If the school had to issue the diploma because she made it all the way to graduation, then you might have a point. But that just isn't the case. You are wrong.
 
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