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Thread: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Funnily enough, I see a pathetic level of groupthink coming from the arguments of those supporting the disobedient student in this. It's people no thinking rationally or morally, but emotionally. Many have already admitted that their support for the disobedient student stems from their own youthful altercations with teachers. It's that whole "we don't need no education, we don't need no thought control" mantra. The other side is vicariously living out their childhood fantasies of standing up to their schoolteachers, and in the process encouraging bad behavior and setting the example that you can disobey the rules as long as you whine enough. Pathetic!

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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    To the idea of just apologizing:

    I, my oldr brother, and friends of mine have had issues in high school with a really crappy administration. They were doing things they had no legal right to do. IT would have been easier to not do anything, BUT we didn't because we knew they were wrong. We won.

    Are you honestly going to suggest that we were in the wrong? The arguments were construed well, but were wrong, likewise in this case there was no rule, and even if there was I doubt that a swearing offense that applies during the academic year is strong enough to withhold a diploma.... or that even if that was the case it would hold up in court, but IANAL.
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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The "mistake" was in violating the rules, which are what they are. If someone wants to participate in a system of rules, they most obey them or accept the consequences of disobedience.

    I posted the school's rule book earlier in this thread, some folks bothered to read it - THERE IS NO RULE that the young lady violated! THERE IS NO RULE in the school rule book that should cause the school's principle to withhold the girl's diploma. The idiocy of the actions undertaken by the principle and the superintendent cause me to think that there was some other cause and not the use of the word hell

    Children don't have a choice as to participation in the school system and the rules that may be imposed upon them - they are children and not allowed to make the rules. However, those same children should expect that those given authority over them shall abide by those same rules as published and promoted and not to impose arbitrary rules and penalties without warning.

    Guy Incognito you are wrong now and have been wrong from your very first post in this thread.
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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Funnily enough, I see a pathetic level of groupthink coming from the arguments of those supporting the disobedient student in this. It's people no thinking rationally or morally, but emotionally. Many have already admitted that their support for the disobedient student stems from their own youthful altercations with teachers. It's that whole "we don't need no education, we don't need no thought control" mantra. The other side is vicariously living out their childhood fantasies of standing up to their schoolteachers, and in the process encouraging bad behavior and setting the example that you can disobey the rules as long as you whine enough. Pathetic!
    And to think I once took you seriously.

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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    I posted the school's rule book earlier in this thread, some folks bothered to read it - THERE IS NO RULE that the young lady violated! THERE IS NO RULE in the school rule book that should cause the school's principle to withhold the girl's diploma. The idiocy of the actions undertaken by the principle and the superintendent cause me to think that there was some other cause and not the use of the word hell

    Children don't have a choice as to participation in the school system and the rules that may be imposed upon them - they are children and not allowed to make the rules. However, those same children should expect that those given authority over them shall abide by those same rules as published and promoted and not to impose arbitrary rules and penalties without warning.

    Guy Incognito you are wrong now and have been wrong from your very first post in this thread.
    I am not wrong and never was. What is wrong is to defend and abet this stubborn child in her disobedience. An apology is in order, there can be no doubt. The fact that there is no explicit rule against profanity in the student handbook is no defense, as nothing in the handbook that states tha the rules in the handbook are the only rules a student must follow.

    Why anyone would go through the intellectual backflips you are doing to defend this disobedient child is beyond me. The only explanation is that those who support this disobedient child are doing so to vicariously avenge what they perceive to be their own mistreatment at the hands of school administrators.

    Opposing public schools because they are coercive and illegitimate, that's great. I agree with you. but if you are the type of person who supports public schooling, and you defend this disobedient child, your argument is nothing but vile hypocrisy. To defend this disobedient child for a clear breach of conduct and refusal to apologize, is nothing more than petulance; rebelliousness for rebelliousness's sake. It is sad, ugly, pathetic, and bespeaks a failure to attain mature adulthood.

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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by waas View Post
    And to think I once took you seriously.
    I'm afraid I don't know who you are.

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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    You say it time and again but it don't make it right. Repetition does not make 'truth'

    Guy Incognito wrote (yet one more time)
    I am not wrong and never was.
    You use the adjective "disobedient" in describing the young lady. I do not think you understand the word

    disobedient: refusing to follow the rule(s)

    There was NO RULE for Ms Nootbaar to follow at the time she used the word hell in her speech, therefore she could not be "disobedient"

    I am the product of private schools but that does not mean I am against public schools in this country.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    You say it time and again but it don't make it right. Repetition does not make 'truth'

    Guy Incognito wrote (yet one more time)

    You use the adjective "disobedient" in describing the young lady. I do not think you understand the word

    disobedient: refusing to follow the rule(s)

    There was NO RULE for Ms Nootbaar to follow at the time she used the word hell in her speech, therefore she could not be "disobedient"

    I am the product of private schools but that does not mean I am against public schools in this country.
    Your illogic is positively cringe inducing. Seriously, reading your posts is hard for me because you are embarrassing yourself so badly.

    Just because there is no specific rule in that one manual does not mean there was no rule. Please do try to apply a little logic to your emotional histrionics.

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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Well it was in Oklahoma. Even Arizona isn't that hosed up yet. But, yeah, that's the America we live in.
    Which is why I say to all of those Texas secessionists that I don't care if they secede as long as they take Oklahoma with them.
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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaIncognito View Post
    How is it not relevant to what is being discussed here? She did technically act against the rules, but I still think that she should be given her diploma based on the notion that breaking a rule is sometimes a beneficial thing to do. Also, I was specifically replying to Guy Incognito's assertion that "rules are rules".



    Which is exactly why I believe that she was right to act against the rule.



    True, I think she may have said the word unintentionally. I'll need to reread the article.



    Uh, no.

    If she screams 'fire' in a crowded movie theatre, then she's in trouble. With the law.

    If she calls my mother a dirty rotten white trash slut, then she's in trouble. With me.
    Can you provide proof of a rule she broke? As it has been pointed out earlier inthis thread there is no rule against using profanity in the school.

    How can you equate the girl saying Hell with yelling fire in a crowded theater?

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