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Thread: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

  1. #151
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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    ...um...perhaps because the policy is arbitrary and draconian, and -- were it not for the political vulnerability of students, especially minors -- wouldn't have seen the light of day if attempted with legal adults?

    (Where else would you be able to convince a bunch of folks to work for four years under conditions and on a curriculum they have little to no input in, and then have the certificate of having completed that work revoked based upon simply saying a word?!?)



    ...except that it is not established that she did anything wrong. You DO comprehend the difference between (allegedly) against the rules vs. ethically wrong, don't you?



    Yeah...the NERVE of that student...speaking freely and using a Forbidden Syllable. Which scarlet letter should we use for the capital crime of Using A Forbidden Syllable?

    The sad part is that I can't tell if you're joking, because there are folks here who would write what you've written and be completely serious. Classic case of POE.
    I wouldn't call the word a "Forbidden Syllable considering their school mascot is the devil.

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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    I wouldn't call the word a "Forbidden Syllable considering their school mascot is the devil.
    Remember: as with most school rules; they apply to students but not to the teachers or administrators...so long as that double standard remains convenient.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

  3. #153
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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    That is not even the point.
    How is it not relevant to what is being discussed here? She did technically act against the rules, but I still think that she should be given her diploma based on the notion that breaking a rule is sometimes a beneficial thing to do. Also, I was specifically replying to Guy Incognito's assertion that "rules are rules".

    She earned her diploma with extremely hard work, got the best grades in school, and they deny her the diploma based on an arbitrary rule about what word can be used or not used.
    Which is exactly why I believe that she was right to act against the rule.

    I doubt she did it to make a point by breaking a rule,
    True, I think she may have said the word unintentionally. I'll need to reread the article.

    but as an adult she has the right to say anything she pleases with no consequences from anybody.
    Uh, no.

    If she screams 'fire' in a crowded movie theatre, then she's in trouble. With the law.

    If she calls my mother a dirty rotten white trash slut, then she's in trouble. With me.

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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    You might then like the suggestion that JT posted on his blog What Would JT Do
    This is going on my Facebook page! LO-****ing-L!

  5. #155
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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I think it is truly sad that anyone cannot see what this child did wrong. It's like a moral blindness, or perhaps a failure to recognize basic human morality at all. This thread is a tragic commentary on society.
    This thread is a tragic commentary on many things, but not society. The one tragedy I notice that is relevant to you is a bizarre stubbornness to stick to a position without any logic, facts or common sense, and yet accuse others persistently and repeatedly of being wrong, shameful and emotional. It has been amusing, mostly, but frustrating at times, simply to witness it.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Chris-
    she said she made a mistake and shouldn't have said hell. THAT should be the end of it as there is NO, ZERO, NADA, NIX, NON rule against her using the word hell.

    You and Guy I. seem to gloss over that fact to call her petulant. She broke no rule, just could have use a bit more care in the choice of words.

    Not diploma with holding worthy.

    She said she made a mistake, the Principle should have been satisfied with that, something else must be going on in this to have the Superintendent blow smoke with a 'confidential' reason.

    Personally I see the honor student saying she made a mistake as prodded on by a third party saying that would show good faith, placate the Principle and smooth it all over.

    However saying she made a mistake doesn't justify the Principle acting less mature than the honor student, nor with holding the diploma.
    I disagree that she made a mistake at all. Her use of the word hell was entirely appropriate. Students shouldn't be afraid to use the word as such.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I don't see any cause for shame on my end. Defending the inappropriate actions of this child is what is shameful. Sad, really, that anyone could be so morally stunted as to think that her behavior is worthy of defending.
    You may want to consider trading in your libertarian badge for one that is more representative of submission to authority and group-think.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  8. #158
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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    This thread is a tragic commentary on many things, but not society. The one tragedy I notice that is relevant to you is a bizarre stubbornness to stick to a position without any logic, facts or common sense, and yet accuse others persistently and repeatedly of being wrong, shameful and emotional. It has been amusing, mostly, but frustrating at times, simply to witness it.
    It is unfortunate that you are so emotional about this topic that it clouds your ability to argue clearly. We have a disobedient child refusing to apologize for an admitted wrongdoing, and people like you defending her. Th facts speak for themselves. The wrongful acts of the child are not nearly as shameful as the adults abetting her obstinacy and petulance.

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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    You may want to consider trading in your libertarian badge for one that is more representative of submission to authority and group-think.
    Hardly. I would be only too happy to talk about how public schools should be abolished and education privatized, were it not off topic for this thread. But the context of unjust and coercive public school sustem is a given. This is not a political issue, it is a moral one moral issue, and to any sensible adult with even the slightest level of maturity, the moral imperative is clear, there should be an apology for breaking the rules, not whining and complaining to try to absolve the consequences of rule breaking.

    Fundamentally libertarianism is about liberty, but people always forget. That with liberty comes responsibility

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    Re: Valedictorian denied high school diploma for saying hell in speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    I disagree that she made a mistake at all. Her use of the word hell was entirely appropriate. Students shouldn't be afraid to use the word as such.
    The "mistake" was in violating the rules, which are what they are. If someone wants to participate in a system of rules, they most obey them or accept the consequences of disobedience.

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