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Thread: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The vehicle in question gets 20mpg when on gas. It is listed at something similar to the Prius on electric only (in 'stealth' mode...all electrics) but then, it can ONLY go 32 miles...so thats kinda false advertising.

    That house current HAS to be generated somewhere...right? Electricity has to travel over copper medium...which is finite without being amplified. Ah...and lets not forget...places like California already run with rolling blackouts...now they are supposed to charge a fleet of cars? Generated by fossil fuels?

    I didnt suggest a cost for laying the conduit but typically you can count on an industry standard of an average of $18 a linear foot, not including the cost of trenching and resurfacing (as per michigan.gov subdivision renovation costs...varies based on locale). Then you have to soec standards requiring manholes and handholes at regular intervals...throw in about $800 every 100 feet (spec requirements vary and its been more than a year or two since I engineered IT projects). Oh...and that was with the fed...I dont even want to think about what city union contract costs are.
    So are you saying that electric cars and natural gas cars are boondoggles?
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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That's true. PCs, as they have evolved today, are probably the most life-changing invention in my lifetime. Done in people's garages and without a huge infusion of capital from the Federal government. You'll never convince me that our government has any business becoming a venture capitalist with taxpayer money.
    Exactly.

    Venture capitalism is a very high-stakes, high-risk form of investing. It is not something that the government, nor any other entity, should ever be doing with money belonging to those who haven't explicitly chosen to have their money used in that manner.

    It strikes me as rather ironic that it seems a lot of criticism against Mitt Romney is based on his having been involved in venture capitalism. But he did so with his own money, and with that of investors who chose to invest in that sort of thing; he wasn't doing it with taxpayer money.

    If there is anything to criticize Mr. Romney about with regard to his involvement in privately-funded venture capitalism, then what are we to think of the Obama administration's reckless, irresponsible use of taxpayer money in venture capitalism?
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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    For the record, the current Corvette Z06...which has 505hp, can travel at speeds CLOSE to 200mph, and was, at one point, a record holder at Nurburgring, get's around 25mpg highway(s'long as you can keep your right foot out of it), and 18 or so city. And that car is BLISTERINGLY, violently fast. It has a push rod motor that can trace it's basic, overall design, all the way back to the 40s. And...GASP...leaf springs.


    Car companies are trying to reinvent the wheel, and the fact is, they're using expensive products for consumer research and testing. Are hybrids dangerous? No. Not that sort of testing. But neither are they all THAT economic, when you consider the amount of capitol and time put into their development. But they HAVE to have SOMETHING, to show us progress, right? Because every moron with a wallet in this country seems to think that "keep moving forward", "progress", or, dare I say it, "An American REVolution"...along with whatever other catch phrase or buzzword you can think of, means something completely new, and anything short of that, simply isn't real progress. I'll go back to my old Civic HX, designed in the late 80s, built till the mid 90s, which got GREAT gas mileage, and had LOW emissions. But car companies feel they can't give us americans that sort of car, even though similar things are all the rage in Europe...because, here in the US, it's just not green enough. Never mind that it's MORE green than the stuff these same companies are CALLING green, lol.

    Not saying that car companies shouldn't invest in these new technologies, lord knows I can't believe we still don't have a workable hydrogen car, even though GM built one back in the late 90s, or something like that. But what I AM saying is, I feel that we the consumers are getting the hose in the deal, because WE"RE the one's doing the product testing for them, WE'RE the ones being sold something on a false pretense...that these cars are both economical, and good for the environment.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    So are you saying that electric cars and natural gas cars are boondoggles?
    Im saying it isnt the panacea that is being promised. Thats all. Natural gas vehicles have been used effectively since the 70's...good start. Better more efficient mass transit options. Good. Golf carts...and scooters for short hops. Awesome idea. Walking a few blocks...OK...never mind...this IS America after all.

    We had a thread a few months back that showed that only about 30% of current hybrid owners will buy a new one. Not sure what that says...but we arent there yet. Doesnt mean we shouldnt keep trying. Im not against hybrids and green cars. But...32 miles on a single charge? 20 MPG afterward? Just doesnt make sense.

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Hmm, I think most people actually live in cities, and hybrids still have an advantage in highway driving if, as in many areas, highways are congested during rush hour.
    ...and more and more people are moving from the hellhole wastelands of the suburbs into the cities, so driving trends are changing in a electric-vehicle friendly direction.

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Let's talk some physics for a moment. The first law of dynamics, simply put, states that energy can neither be created, nor destroyed. Only altered. So, in the case of cars, we are taking energy that is stored in oil, and releasing it. Where did that energy come from? The sun. Think of it as fosselized sunlight. It's sunlight that hit the earth millions and millions of years ago. It was not destroyed, only altered, by plants. Specifically, marine plants. Which died before they could alter it, themselves, in the form of growth, or reproduction, or whatever they were using it for. Once they died, they sank to the bottom of the ocean, and got covered in dirt. Preserved. You see, usually, when a plant dies, it rots, and decomposes, and eventually becomes very energy rich soil. It is altered. But in this case, it was trapped under higher pressure, and mud. For millions of years. It rotted, and became, over that span of time, the oil we now know and love. When we burn it, we release that stored energy, and it gets used, generally for motion of some form or another.

    Now, you take an object, any object. To move said object, it requires energy. If I were to move that object, with, say, my hand, it would require the same amount of energy actually being applied to the object, than, if, say, someone ELSE moved the object, or, if, say, the wind moved said object. Because, the object had not changed weight, or shape, or texture, from one method of movement to another.

    Why all of this? To explain something really quite simple. No matter what we use, be it electricity, oil, natural gas, hydrogen, or wind...a car requires the same amount of energy being applied to it, in order to achieve the same amount of motion. The question is, from where can we derive the most energy, and, of the options, which is the most efficient, and these days, more importantly, which is less harmful to our environment. Where does electricity come from? Why, mostly, from fossil fuels, just like oil. Only, coal does not have NEAR the energy potential that oil has. It has less stored energy. In essence, then, it is less efficient. We can also generate electricity from the wind, and from water, by working in reverse...which is to say, by turning MOTION into electricity, instead of the other way around. But we can only ever generation as much energy this way as those forces can generate motion. In other words, not nearly enough to power all the worlds automobiles, as we currently stand.

    In my mind, trying to make a car that runs on electricity is a step backwards. We already had them in the early 1900s, and ditched them, for the very same reasons they are not too popular now. Think about what electricity is, and what it takes to transport it. What happens when you try to power, say, a drill, with a 5 foot plug, from a wall socket? It runs fine, to tax to the grid at all. Now, whip out a 500 foot extension cord, and try to do the same. Not gonna work out so well for you. This is the inherent problem with it, as an energy source. Oil, on the other hand, does not release it's store of energy without a catalyst, typically, heat. Ideal.

    But what of that other elusive source? Hydrogen?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    ...and more and more people are moving from the hellhole wastelands of the suburbs into the cities, so driving trends are changing in a electric-vehicle friendly direction.
    Meh, for me gas and diesel are still the best options. Electric would only take me so far, and since I road trip constantly, and is threfore is highly impractical, and I just don't like hybrids. For one, the styling on those things is gayer than a bag full of rainbows and AIDS (looking at you Honda and Toyota), but mostly because they drive like ****, and the dumbasses who designed them somehow came to the conclusion that changing the traditional layout of the controls would be a wonderful idea. (It isn't). I'm a bit ashamed to admit that I drove my grandmothers Prius when I came back home from Korea and didn't yet have a car, and I can honestly, and sternly state that whoever designed that abomination should have been fired. It has the worst visibility of any vehicle I have ever operated, and it looks like a cross between a woodlouse and a pregnant cockroach. Great for soccer moms and old ladies, I guess, but the dominant hybrids on the market are crap.

    Automakers need to pull their heads out of their asses and make hybrids that look and feel like real cars. Build a hybrid truck, an SUV, a van, something that's practical that the average American would actually want to drive. I would love to have a small SUV with that kind of fuel mileage, simply because I travel a lot, but I don't want something the runs on estrogen and broken dreams that's going to make me feel like a bitch every time I look at it.
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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Let's talk some physics for a moment. The first law of dynamics, simply put, states that energy can neither be created, nor destroyed. Only altered. So, in the case of cars, we are taking energy that is stored in oil, and releasing it. Where did that energy come from? The sun. Think of it as fosselized sunlight. It's sunlight that hit the earth millions and millions of years ago. It was not destroyed, only altered, by plants. Specifically, marine plants. Which died before they could alter it, themselves, in the form of growth, or reproduction, or whatever they were using it for. Once they died, they sank to the bottom of the ocean, and got covered in dirt. Preserved. You see, usually, when a plant dies, it rots, and decomposes, and eventually becomes very energy rich soil. It is altered. But in this case, it was trapped under higher pressure, and mud. For millions of years. It rotted, and became, over that span of time, the oil we now know and love. When we burn it, we release that stored energy, and it gets used, generally for motion of some form or another.

    Now, you take an object, any object. To move said object, it requires energy. If I were to move that object, with, say, my hand, it would require the same amount of energy actually being applied to the object, than, if, say, someone ELSE moved the object, or, if, say, the wind moved said object. Because, the object had not changed weight, or shape, or texture, from one method of movement to another.

    Why all of this? To explain something really quite simple. No matter what we use, be it electricity, oil, natural gas, hydrogen, or wind...a car requires the same amount of energy being applied to it, in order to achieve the same amount of motion. The question is, from where can we derive the most energy, and, of the options, which is the most efficient, and these days, more importantly, which is less harmful to our environment. Where does electricity come from? Why, mostly, from fossil fuels, just like oil. Only, coal does not have NEAR the energy potential that oil has. It has less stored energy. In essence, then, it is less efficient. We can also generate electricity from the wind, and from water, by working in reverse...which is to say, by turning MOTION into electricity, instead of the other way around. But we can only ever generation as much energy this way as those forces can generate motion. In other words, not nearly enough to power all the worlds automobiles, as we currently stand.

    In my mind, trying to make a car that runs on electricity is a step backwards. We already had them in the early 1900s, and ditched them, for the very same reasons they are not too popular now. Think about what electricity is, and what it takes to transport it. What happens when you try to power, say, a drill, with a 5 foot plug, from a wall socket? It runs fine, to tax to the grid at all. Now, whip out a 500 foot extension cord, and try to do the same. Not gonna work out so well for you. This is the inherent problem with it, as an energy source. Oil, on the other hand, does not release it's store of energy without a catalyst, typically, heat. Ideal.

    But what of that other elusive source? Hydrogen?
    I dont pretend to understand the physics and engineering requirements for an H car, but as I understand it, there is simply no way to make the conversion cost effective, just as converting stations would also be ineffective. But if they could...happy days! Heck...why not downward design a low yield nuclear reactor for the purpose of powering automobiles. Surely the breakthroughs we have made in micro and nano-technology could facilitate such a thing.

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I dont pretend to understand the physics and engineering requirements for an H car, but as I understand it, there is simply no way to make the conversion cost effective, just as converting stations would also be ineffective. But if they could...happy days! Heck...why not downward design a low yield nuclear reactor for the purpose of powering automobiles. Surely the breakthroughs we have made in micro and nano-technology could facilitate such a thing.
    Considering all the religious extremists that blow **** up, and the fact that the average human is a ****ing idiot, do you really think that's such a great idea?
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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    For the record, the current Corvette Z06...which has 505hp, can travel at speeds CLOSE to 200mph, and was, at one point, a record holder at Nurburgring, get's around 25mpg highway(s'long as you can keep your right foot out of it), and 18 or so city. And that car is BLISTERINGLY, violently fast. It has a push rod motor that can trace it's basic, overall design, all the way back to the 40s. And...GASP...leaf springs.


    Car companies are trying to reinvent the wheel, and the fact is, they're using expensive products for consumer research and testing. Are hybrids dangerous? No. Not that sort of testing. But neither are they all THAT economic, when you consider the amount of capitol and time put into their development. But they HAVE to have SOMETHING, to show us progress, right? Because every moron with a wallet in this country seems to think that "keep moving forward", "progress", or, dare I say it, "An American REVolution"...along with whatever other catch phrase or buzzword you can think of, means something completely new, and anything short of that, simply isn't real progress. I'll go back to my old Civic HX, designed in the late 80s, built till the mid 90s, which got GREAT gas mileage, and had LOW emissions. But car companies feel they can't give us americans that sort of car, even though similar things are all the rage in Europe...because, here in the US, it's just not green enough. Never mind that it's MORE green than the stuff these same companies are CALLING green, lol.

    Not saying that car companies shouldn't invest in these new technologies, lord knows I can't believe we still don't have a workable hydrogen car, even though GM built one back in the late 90s, or something like that. But what I AM saying is, I feel that we the consumers are getting the hose in the deal, because WE"RE the one's doing the product testing for them, WE'RE the ones being sold something on a false pretense...that these cars are both economical, and good for the environment.
    The problem with those hydrogen cars was the fuel cells. A motor being used to seperate out hydrogen just cannot over the long run also be used to power the car. Something about the law of conservation of energy and matter.

    Take that same hydrogen powered vehicle that ran on that fuel cell (about 300 mile range if I remember right) and add bottles of compressed hydrogen and oxygen and it would go until the bottles were empty, refill bottles, repeat as necessary. The biggest problem with hydrogen is storing it. It's rather dangerous stuff if it gets near a spark and oxygen. Say like when that Semi runs over your hydrogen powered sub-compact. So unless someone comes up with a way to store, say enough electricity to seperate the hydrogen/Oxygen on demand, you will have to store it.

    Forget the Fisker, now here is a hot car
    1106chp-01-+1971-chevrolet-chevelle+front.jpg

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