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Thread: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Tesla is likely losing money on each one sold, great car, but if they dont sell around 20 000 a year they will go broke
    It's prices are comparable to other luxury four-doors (after tax credits, granted) and that's it's best chance. It could steal business from BMW, Audi, M-B and Acura. 20,000 might not be too high of a goal for a brand new start up company.

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    Well, there is. It's not a fundamentally new overall drivetrain, but there are little bits that are spread around. The solar power roof and the regenerative braking systems are where the real technology is.

    Plus, it's faster than most hybrids. It has 490 hp and almost 1,000 lb-ft. I don't know another hybrid that gets near those numbers. Will that translate into big sales? Probably not. But like I said, this is the razor's edge of hybrid tech.
    There are many hybrids and nearly all use the regenerative braking technology. Performance is hardly a concern for most hybrid buyers and there are many that are sporty or luxury models.

    See links: Best Hybrid Cars - Compare Hybrid Cars | Hybrid Cars

    http://www.familycar.com/Classroom/A...werSystems.htm

    http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~thb/P...r_Benjamin.pdf
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 08-20-12 at 12:02 AM.
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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    There are many hybrids and nearly all use the regenerative braking technology. Performance is hardly a concern for most hybrid buyers and there are many that are sporty or luxury models. See link: Best Hybrid Cars - Compare Hybrid Cars | Hybrid Cars
    LOL!

    When hybrid technology first came out, it's detractors were all in unison saying hybrid's will never ever sell because they were slow, and American's like fast cars.

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    LOL!

    When hybrid technology first came out, it's detractors were all in unison saying hybrid's will never ever sell because they were slow, and American's like fast cars.
    The biggest drawback for hybrids is price and range, as most battery systems allow 20 to 40 miles and then must rely on the back-up IC power which usually gets less than the mileage afforded by an efficient TDI powered vehicle at 1/2 the cost. For a short commute vehicle they are perfect, for all else not so much.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The biggest drawback for hybrids is price and range, as most battery systems allow 20 to 40 miles and then must rely on the back-up IC power which usually gets less than the mileage afforded by an efficient TDI powered vehicle at 1/2 the cost. For a short commute vehicle they are perfect, for all else not so much.
    Which is why making them as luxury cars is a good idea. BMW is coming out with a performance Hybrid of its 3 series that has better gas millage and nearly the same performance as the 335. Lexus has its hybrids as the range toppers for its specific lines (ES and IS series excepted)

    Hybrids have an advantage in that they can provide great city gas milage and match the performance of cars with poorer milage. The range is not an issue because it has an IC engine. The main issue is weight, hybrids weigh alot
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 08-20-12 at 12:18 AM.

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Which is why making them as luxury cars is a good idea. BMW is coming out with a performance Hybrid of its 3 series that has better gas millage and nearly the same performance as the 335. Lexus has its hybrids as the range toppers for its specific lines (ES and IS series excepted)

    Hybrids have an advantage in that they can provide great city gas milage and match the performance of cars with poorer milage.
    The only advantage is to make the owner's feel 'greener'.

    It has been proven time and again that unless you own a hybrid for at least 8-10 years, the added cost to purchase one (over a non-hybrid alternative) is greater then the amount of fuel cost savings.
    Last edited by DA60; 08-20-12 at 12:21 AM.

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The biggest drawback for hybrids is price and range, as most battery systems allow 20 to 40 miles and then must rely on the back-up IC power which usually gets less than the mileage afforded by an efficient TDI powered vehicle at 1/2 the cost. For a short commute vehicle they are perfect, for all else not so much.
    You don't know much about this I'm afraid. First, all hybrids are not plugins. In fact almost no hybrids are plugins. Second, the hybrid drivetrain isn't as simple as using up the electricity and then switching over to gas. There are three modes of operation: all electric, gas + electric, and all gas. In normal driving you'll go back and forth between the three modes depending on the type of driving and battery charge. They're certainly capable of getting excellent mileage over long distances, though they are better suited to stop-and-go driving. A lot of cab fleets are going to hybrids because they're more efficient.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    The only advantage is to make the owner's feel 'greener'.

    It has been proven time and again that unless you own most/all hybrids for at least 8-10 years, the added cost to purchase a one is greater then the amount of fuel cost savings.
    And that matters why?

    I can buy a BMW 3 series for $40 000 or a BMW 7 series for $120 000 grand. I will never make that money back. Or I can a base Caymen, for 60 000 or a Nissan 370 Z for 30 000 and get generally the same performance. Sometimes it is not about being paid back economically, but about wants and desires
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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Tesla is likely losing money on each one sold, great car, but if they dont sell around 20 000 a year they will go broke
    They're pretty close to being profitable. Elon Musk isn't an idiot and he's not just in this to make a point. Hint: buy Tesla stock.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    And that matters why?

    I can buy a BMW 3 series for $40 000 or a BMW 7 series for $120 000 grand. I will never make that money back. Or I can a base Caymen, for 60 000 or a Nissan 370 Z for 30 000 and get generally the same performance. Sometimes it is not about being paid back economically, but about wants and desires
    Which is what I said...the only reason to buy a hybrid is to make the owner feel 'greener' - a want and/or desire.

    In other words, imo, if you buy a hybrid, you are either a rabid tree hugger or an automotive ignoramus - because either way (unless you keep your vehicle for about a decade) you are paying through the nose.

    Imo, hybrids are the worst of both worlds.

    And if someone is SO worried about global warming - then take the bus more often.

    But to lose thousands of dollars just to 'feel' greener seems silly to me.
    Last edited by DA60; 08-20-12 at 12:52 AM.

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